The debate lies on whether you see the flaws in his game as his own (traits like inaccuracy, crumbling under spotlight, or foolish throws) or if you see the flaws as circumstance (playcalls, blocking, drops/routes).

I think the majority here see his potential individually. He has the traits to be a franchise guy, even if he hasn't cemented his spot in the top-X QBs around the league. The question is truly whether he'll improve as circumstances improve. If we wait until he proves it, the cap number will skyrocket even more.

The GM is on the hook for the pick, as well as the work he's done to maximize Trevor's potential. At this stage, whether he negotiates the new deal today or a year from today, TB will stay or go based on whether the work he's done to make this team what it is proves successful or not. It's in his (and the team's) best interest to do the deal sooner than later.

Crumbling under spotlight?  Where the hell did you come up with that idea?

That one makes no sense.

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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bu...0656628319

12:20 talks about Trevor.

Ruiz makes a good point. Take out the QB and just look at the roster around the QBs. Would you have expected that roster to be 9-8? If Carr was behind center, is that Jags team going 9-8? They're not.

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Crumbling under spotlight?  Where the hell did you come up with that idea?

That one makes no sense.

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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bu...0656628319

12:20 talks about Trevor.

Ruiz makes a good point. Take out the QB and just look at the roster around the QBs. Would you have expected that roster to be 9-8? If Carr was behind center, is that Jags team going 9-8? They're not.

Even though the guys on that podcast were pretty kind when talking about Trevor, I think what a lot of people don't seem to understand, especially people like the ones in that podcast who are looking at things from the 30,000 foot view, is that when a team cannot run the ball effectively for short yardage, like on 3rd and 2, or when it's goal to go, which compresses the field, that is a tremendous handicap for an offense and a quarterback.  A team has to at least have the OPTION of pounding the ball into the end zone.  Without that, it's all on the QB to get a TD by throwing it.  And that makes it really hard.

Last year we had 120 plays where we ran the ball for zero or minus yardage.  I'm sure all of us can recollect many times when the ball was handed to Travis Etienne, and he was hit 2 yards in the backfield.  MANY times.  2nd and 12 or 3rd and 12 has a MAJOR impact on the effectiveness of your passing game.  Not to mention the lack of a running threat when it's 3rd and goal from the 2 yard line.  

Trevor is not the problem here.

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Lol, yeah, it will be just awful for this team to be "stuck" playing for the division and getting playoff home games for the next decade. Just terrible. He's 24, played through literal hell in the last couple seasons and still has the team in position to win long term. People are fixated on the last six games instead of the tremendous improvement made in 2 seasons. Whatever it takes to hold on to this guy needs to be done, it's really hard to get one and I don't feel like waiting another decade for the next one to come around.

The debate lies on whether you see the flaws in his game as his own (traits like inaccuracy, crumbling under spotlight, or foolish throws) or if you see the flaws as circumstance (playcalls, blocking, drops/routes).

I think the majority here see his potential individually. He has the traits to be a franchise guy, even if he hasn't cemented his spot in the top-X QBs around the league. The question is truly whether he'll improve as circumstances improve. If we wait until he proves it, the cap number will skyrocket even more.

The GM is on the hook for the pick, as well as the work he's done to maximize Trevor's potential. At this stage, whether he negotiates the new deal today or a year from today, TB will stay or go based on whether the work he's done to make this team what it is proves successful or not. It's in his (and the team's) best interest to do the deal sooner than later.

I think the answer to the above statement is 'both'.  I think anyone who believes that Trevor is a finished product has become way too enamored.  Adding in the lost fumbles in 2023, puts him at 21 TDs - to 21 Turnovers (14 Ints + 7 lost fumbles,) there's no way you can consistently win in this league with that ratio.  On the other-hand, having a bottom of the league Oline isn't doing him any favors while he tries to improve his game.

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That one makes no sense.

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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bu...0656628319

12:20 talks about Trevor.

Ruiz makes a good point. Take out the QB and just look at the roster around the QBs. Would you have expected that roster to be 9-8? If Carr was behind center, is that Jags team going 9-8? They're not.

Even though the guys on that podcast were pretty kind when talking about Trevor, I think what a lot of people don't seem to understand, especially people like the ones in that podcast who are looking at things from the 30,000 foot view, is that when a team cannot run the ball effectively for short yardage, like on 3rd and 2, or when it's goal to go, which compresses the field, that is a tremendous handicap for an offense and a quarterback.  A team has to at least have the OPTION of pounding the ball into the end zone.  Without that, it's all on the QB to get a TD by throwing it.  And that makes it really hard.

Last year we had 120 plays where we ran the ball for zero or minus yardage.  I'm sure all of us can recollect many times when the ball was handed to Travis Etienne, and he was hit 2 yards in the backfield.  MANY times.  2nd and 12 or 3rd and 12 has a MAJOR impact on the effectiveness of your passing game.  Not to mention the lack of a running threat when it's 3rd and goal from the 2 yard line.  

Trevor is not the problem here.

It's been the bane of this team's existence since Lawrence set foot here. It's frustrating. Most of us have been fans since the beginning, or, were fortunate enough to witness the great running games we had here throughout the years between Fred Taylor, James Stewart, Stacy Mack, Maurice Jones-Drew, etc. 

Even the 2017 team had it's moments. There was a bit of a lull for awhile but between Fournette, Yeldon and Grant, there felt like there was always the ability to pick-up chump change on the ground when and if needed. To see it flatline the way it has? It's been a real culture shock for me. 

Even more frustrating when you consider that, Lawrence easily has the best overall arm talent and football IQ with mobility that have not seen in years here. At least since Brunell. Garrard had some good qualities to him. As did Leftwich. But, they all lacked something here and there that held the team back. Same for Bortles. 

It's just a shame we can't get it right and come together with everything in the right place at the right time anymore. I hope it's this year or next year. We'll see. Even today's best teams can still run it when they absolutely need to or have to. 49ers, Eagles, Chiefs, Ravens, etc. 

Just need to find that balance again to keep a defense honest and Lawrence will finally be able to unleash his full potential out there.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

According to PFF grading from week 9 to the end of 22 only Burrow and Mahomes had a better grade. From Week 1 in 23 to week 13 when he was injured he had a grade in the top 5. That's 21+ games of top 5 play according to PFFs grading system. I get their system isn't flawless but even if you account for a margin of error wouldn't that make it reasonable to say when health Lawrence is a top 10 QB?

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Even though the guys on that podcast were pretty kind when talking about Trevor, I think what a lot of people don't seem to understand, especially people like the ones in that podcast who are looking at things from the 30,000 foot view, is that when a team cannot run the ball effectively for short yardage, like on 3rd and 2, or when it's goal to go, which compresses the field, that is a tremendous handicap for an offense and a quarterback.  A team has to at least have the OPTION of pounding the ball into the end zone.  Without that, it's all on the QB to get a TD by throwing it.  And that makes it really hard.

Last year we had 120 plays where we ran the ball for zero or minus yardage.  I'm sure all of us can recollect many times when the ball was handed to Travis Etienne, and he was hit 2 yards in the backfield.  MANY times.  2nd and 12 or 3rd and 12 has a MAJOR impact on the effectiveness of your passing game.  Not to mention the lack of a running threat when it's 3rd and goal from the 2 yard line.  

Trevor is not the problem here.

It's been the bane of this team's existence since Lawrence set foot here. It's frustrating. Most of us have been fans since the beginning, or, were fortunate enough to witness the great running games we had here throughout the years between Fred Taylor, James Stewart, Stacy Mack, Maurice Jones-Drew, etc. 

Even the 2017 team had it's moments. There was a bit of a lull for awhile but between Fournette, Yeldon and Grant, there felt like there was always the ability to pick-up chump change on the ground when and if needed. To see it flatline the way it has? It's been a real culture shock for me. 

Even more frustrating when you consider that, Lawrence easily has the best overall arm talent and football IQ with mobility that have not seen in years here. At least since Brunell. Garrard had some good qualities to him. As did Leftwich. But, they all lacked something here and there that held the team back. Same for Bortles. 

It's just a shame we can't get it right and come together with everything in the right place at the right time anymore. I hope it's this year or next year. We'll see. Even today's best teams can still run it when they absolutely need to or have to. 49ers, Eagles, Chiefs, Ravens, etc. 

Just need to find that balance again to keep a defense honest and Lawrence will finally be able to unleash his full potential out there.

Brunell - not the most accurate, not the strongest arm, not a confident runner after his injury, good grit and good decisions usually. Good enough in every area but not great.

Leftwich - one of the strongest arms in the league, very inaccurate at times, no ability to escape pressure, very long and very easy to read throwing motion

Garrard - similar to Brunell, better runner than post-injury Brunell, but a poor, hanging deep ball.

Gabbert - Gabbert showed literally nothing while he was here.  The entire offense was a catastrophe.  Gabbert was a successful backup elsewhere so it was just a bad environment for him overall.

Bortles - the best runner and hardest to tackle of any Jags QB, better than average arm strength, able to be accurate, but no ability to time his throws or throw guys open.  If the receiver was going to change direction in between the decision to throw and the ball getting there, Bortles couldn't compute it.

Lawrence - has all the throws as well as some evasive ability and strength.  Has bad streaks of overthrows and staring down receivers.  But when he's on he's on.  Best QB in terms of talent the Jaguars have ever had. Is carrying the team and is often one of the only things the team has going for them. If Dave Widell was blocking for him, he would have played in at least one super bowl by now.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I think people are digging their feet into the sand on a side on this and I don't think it matters that much whether we pay him this year or next.  Sure, it will be more next year but so will the cap and everything else will work itself out.  Though, I've seen enough to know he's worth extending and I also understand how the market works, so paying him now will save a few million per year over the course of the deal and if you've seen enough as I have that's smart business, but if they paid him next year that's cool too.  The extra $3-5 million saved per year isn't going to be the reason we win or lose on game day.

Here's the thing for those opposed to paying him now though.  They can and probably will structure the deal to where the guarantees are all gone by the end of year 3 and the guarantees are all that matters on a bad contract (and they will probably re-do his deal again in that span).  So, even if you're correct that he winds up not being worth it over the next few years, they'll likely be able to part ways if they desire during or after year 3.  Even a mistake of a contract in that scenario isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme because nothing about Lawrence suggests that his floor is bottom half of the league or worse.  Goff got what, $73M guaranteed?  That's for all the intents and purposes a 2 year "continue to prove it" deal.  I think people are getting caught up in the total number, but the total number is the going salary for competent QB play and it's only going to get higher.  It will be closer to $60M per year next year. 

TLDR;  unbunch your panties, it doesn't matter.

I'm seeing $170.6M guaranteed for Goff here.  There is no doubt that there is risk in signing a huge contract to a player that doesn't quite get you there, in Tlaw's case the Jags are increasing the guaranteed money from 36M to 170M.  If they structure it as you mentioned (guaranteed money in the first three years) that's 56.6M guaranteed per year. That's a huge commitment if the team decides TLaw isn't the franchise QB.  But if the team is convinced that Trevor is the guy, then signing him now reduces his salary over the next ~6ish years (4 year extension.)

Yeah my bad.  It's $73M signing bonus.  $110M gtd at signing and there are some other dates where more money is guaranteed which gets it to the $170M number.  Interesting contract now that I've looked at it.  My reaction to the $170M gtd figure was ok it's definitely not a prove it deal, but then reading that the additional money gets guaranteed at specific milestone dates does give the team some options if he [BLEEP] the bed early on in the deal or suffers serious injury.

Either way, this whole argument from both sides calls for an appropriate meme.

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The debate lies on whether you see the flaws in his game as his own (traits like inaccuracy, crumbling under spotlight, or foolish throws) or if you see the flaws as circumstance (playcalls, blocking, drops/routes).

I think the majority here see his potential individually. He has the traits to be a franchise guy, even if he hasn't cemented his spot in the top-X QBs around the league. The question is truly whether he'll improve as circumstances improve. If we wait until he proves it, the cap number will skyrocket even more.

The GM is on the hook for the pick, as well as the work he's done to maximize Trevor's potential. At this stage, whether he negotiates the new deal today or a year from today, TB will stay or go based on whether the work he's done to make this team what it is proves successful or not. It's in his (and the team's) best interest to do the deal sooner than later.

Crumbling under spotlight?  Where the hell did you come up with that idea?

I am not asserting this is a flaw of his. I was listing example traits, sorry to confuse things.

In QBs, though, you can say that they are flawed if they fail in the big games. That's an individual trait, not a circumstantial one.

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