You've got to be the most blindly partisan individual I've met yet. If they had a D in front of their name the Spying, bank bailouts, and now interment camps can all be justified or excused.

 

I didn't say anything was excused, I said that he was a great president in spite of that mar on his record.

 

What part of it don't you get?

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So FDR gets a free pass because he happened to live during a time with History's, perhaps, worst villain?


Nevermind that putting citizens in internment camps, no matter how you look at it is worse than spying on them.  

 

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It's a period of history that we like to gloss over.  It's sad but true.  It happens in every country -- historical revisionism.  It's worse in some countries.  I was lucky enough to be in a history class that actually went over it.  And my wife, as a history teacher, makes sure to go over it with her US History students.  Because it's important to know -- so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past. 

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Without condoning the internment of U.S. citizens, you cannot discount the times in which it occurred. Given your criteria and ignoring what was going on at that time, the list of top 5 U.S. presidents would start with Washington, and include Jefferson, for not insisting that slavery be abolished. How could the immorality of that practice escape one of the greatest minds in history? Jefferson not only owned slaves, he used his position of authority and dominion to make a slave his concubine.  I'd say 400 years of kidnapping and enslaving people trumps just about anything else. Andrew Jackson committed genocide.

 

When you make a list like that, you have many candidates for number 1.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

A liberal cannot discuss anything without also giving a personal insult, ever. It generally comes from them not being confident on the argument they side with to stand on its own. 

Oh good. More broad and sweeping assumptions about large groups of people. 

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A liberal cannot discuss anything without also giving a personal insult, ever. It generally comes from them not being confident on the argument they side with to stand on its own. 

 

Many of us are waiting on you to declare your beliefs beyond agreeing with other's takes and calling anyone with whom you disagree a liberal.

 

Have a take, and try not to suck.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

I don't know that people like to forget it, but I do think that bit of history is not widely understood. It was certainly not covered in the history classes I took in high school.

Ignored is probably a better way to put it. It was not gone over in any of classes either at catholic school or public highschool. 

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Without condoning the internment of U.S. citizens, you cannot discount the times in which it occurred. Given your criteria and ignoring what was going on at that time, the list of top 5 U.S. presidents would start with Washington, and include Jefferson, for not insisting that slavery be abolished. How could the immorality of that practice escape one of the greatest minds in history? Jefferson not only owned slaves, he used his position of authority and dominion to   I'd say 400 years of kidnapping and enslaving people trumps just about anything else. Andrew Jackson committed genocide.

 

When you make a list like that, you have many candidates for number 1.

 

There's a difference between ignoring what was going on at the time, and ignoring the time period.

 

You can't excuse what FDR did because "Well, look at what Hitler did."  When nobody in history excuses Hitler for his actions.  Same goes for Kim Jong Un, and the privacy laws in China.  Nobody's giving 'Dubya' a pass because 'well, look at what else was going on in the world'.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I didn't say anything was excused, I said that he was a great president in spite of that mar on his record.

 

What part of it don't you get?

 

You just excused the internment camps and said all things consider it wasn't that bad because we treated AMERICAN CITIZENS better than the Japanese treated POW's and Nazi's treated Jews.

 

Without condoning the internment of U.S. citizens, you cannot discount the times in which it occurred. Given your criteria and ignoring what was going on at that time, the list of top 5 U.S. presidents would start with Washington, and include Jefferson, for not insisting that slavery be abolished. How could the immorality of that practice escape one of the greatest minds in history? Jefferson not only owned slaves, he used his position of authority and dominion to make a slave his concubine.  I'd say 400 years of kidnapping and enslaving people trumps just about anything else. Andrew Jackson committed genocide.

 

When you make a list like that, you have many candidates for number 1.

 

So I guess you would advocate taking all Muslims looking Americans and putting them in internment camps today, don't discount the times that we live in now.

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Yep, the echoes of the stupidity of the worst president the US ever had (Dubya) are still reverberating, and will be for a long time yet.

He destabilized one of the most crucial regions on the planet while simultaneously nosediving the American economy.

 

It still blows my mind that he got two terms.

Polling would indicate the worst president ever is your messiah, actually. 

 

Bush didn't destabilize the Middle East.  It's a region that's been unstable for years and years or even centuries. 

 

Did he order secret torture or CIA spying on the entire nation?

 

Yes, I know about his idea to change the makeup of the supreme court and make all the old guys collectively have a single vote. It was a novel idea that got the judicial branch to finally get out of the way.

 

Also I know the internment camps for Japanese weren't great, but I'd say it was better than what the Japanese were doing to American POWs or the Germans were doing to the Jews they got their hands on.

 

FDR led the nation back from a prior administration that had crashed the economy in true republican style and brought the free world back from the brink of German/Japanese domination.

 

Ah, FDR.  The saint of the left.  His mythical powers of saving this nation are well documented, and almost completely false. 

 

The New Deal actually prolonged the great depression.  Even liberals at UCLA agree. 

Like I said, not great, but compared to what he did right and everything else going on in the world it was insignificant.

 

If Germans had a distinguished look compared to Americans I imagine they probably would have been interned, too. It was war, and it was an intense war for a nation that was only beginning to recover from what the republican administrations of Coolidge and Hoover had wrought.

 

As for Obama continuing the spying, I didn't say he gets a free pass, but GWB is still worse.

 

This is arguably one of the dumbest things anyone has ever posted in this forum.  Congratulations.  It wasn't insignificant.  It was US citizens being dragged off to prison camps.  Ask them how insignificant that was. 

 

Oh please.  You give your messiah a free pass on anything because the lib knee jerk reaction is to blame Bush, which you do quite adeptly.

 

Spoken like a true lefty. 

 

Anyone who's objective & lived through the Carter administration would disagree. 

 

 

I'm no GWB fan...but he wasn't the worst. 

 

Well, there's a segment of this country who think 0bama is the worst since WW2. 

 

As far as Obama's decision to bomb Iraq goes, it's a token move and nothing more.  Two jets, a few 500 lb bombs, and a photo op for the guy showing how tough he is.  Meanwhile, the slaughter of Christians and others in Iraq by ISIS continue.  It's not going to cripple ISIS, or stop the assault.  All it's going to do is appease those who have been demanding some sort of action as they've watched this cancer spread in Iraq thanks to the void left by 0bama completely yanking the plug in Iraq and turning tail.  Nobody wants boots on the ground, but this response could have been done much sooner, and with more force to really cripple ISIS.  It's only happening now because 0bama is polling at the lowest in his entire presidency.  Nothing this administration does is about anything other than politics. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

You just excused the internment camps and said all things consider it wasn't that bad because we treated AMERICAN CITIZENS better than the Japanese treated POW's and Nazi's treated Jews.

 

 

So I guess you would advocate taking all Muslims looking Americans and putting them in internment camps today, don't discount the times that we live in now.

 

I didn't excuse anything, I said those were the things going on in the world at the time. By comparison the USA's caution with a small and easily recognizable immigrant group was mild.

 

Not that it's good to intern citizens, but even today thanks to Nixon's war on drugs we practically have disenfranchised an entire sex/race combination in black males. I'd say that what has been done to black men in modern America is much worse than what was done to the Japanese Americans in world war 2. At least when we were done with that exercise they went back to their lives and eventually found national acceptance as a racial group. Something black men still haven't found here.

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I doubt you lived through the Carter administration, and if you did I doubt you were old enough to actually know anything about it at all.

 

In fact going by the lack of intelligence you currently display I'd say you wouldn't have been able to recognize the circumstances even if you did.

 

The economic problems of the 70's were mostly due to reverberations of needed monetary policy changes that were undertaken originally by Nixon as well as Nixon's free trade policies. Of course there was also trouble in the middle east causing an oil embargo on a nation that was addicted to cheap energy.

 

If we'd have continued on Carter's course the world would be a much cleaner, cooler, place today.

 

It gets more and more pathetic.  Had we continued with Carter's policies, we'd either all be speaking Russian, or we'd be a 3rd world economy.  Take your pick.  Only a buffoon would think otherwise, or at least someone who was so indoctrinated into idiotic liberal policies that they've completely buried their head in an orifice better left for exit only use. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

So I guess you would advocate taking all Muslims looking Americans and putting them in internment camps today, don't discount the times that we live in now.

 

Did I say that? No. I do not condone it in any shape or form. My point is that when making a list of worst presidents you must consider their times. That's all.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Did I say that? No. I do not condone it in any shape or form. My point is that when making a list of worst presidents you must consider their times. That's all.

 

Not to even mention that today instead of interning people the CIA just spies on them.

 

Anyone recall the republican administration of NYC's police policies and spying operations on Muslims? How about the Dubya administration no-fly list?

 

Don't kid yourself, the spirit of what brought us Japanese internment camps 70 years ago is still alive and well in this nation, it's just much more insidiously implemented now thanks to technology.

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Not to even mention that today instead of interning people the CIA just spies on them.

From the scarecrow's mouth.

 

Spying on people is worse than putting them in internment camps.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

From the scarecrow's mouth.

 

Spying on people is worse than putting them in internment camps.

 

You republicans, always seeing the words you want to see instead of the ones that are written.

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You republicans, always seeing the words you want to see instead of the ones that are written.

 

I lean towards the Green party, actually.  And I'm not seeing what I want to see.  I'm seeing what's there.

 

The Bush policies of spying were bad.  I'm willing to admit that.  I'm sure most conservatives are willing to admit that.  Bush was by no means a Top 5 President, and you'll never hear most people claim that.

 

But the policy of Japanese-American internment was far worse.  And it cannot be excused because Hitler did worse to jews.  Unless you want to excuse that too.  I'm sure excuses could be made for Bush too.  But I won't hear you spouting them.  Because he's not a member of your party.  Anybody with a D next to there name gets a pass.  Anybody who has an R does not.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I didn't excuse anything, I said those were the things going on in the world at the time. By comparison the USA's caution with a small and easily recognizable immigrant group was mild.

 

Not that it's good to intern citizens, but even today thanks to Nixon's war on drugs we practically have disenfranchised an entire sex/race combination in black males. I'd say that what has been done to black men in modern America is much worse than what was done to the Japanese Americans in world war 2. At least when we were done with that exercise they went back to their lives and eventually found national acceptance as a racial group. Something black men still haven't found here.

 

So because they looked different it wasn't that bad. got it.

 

Did I say that? No. I do not condone it in any shape or form. My point is that when making a list of worst presidents you must consider their times. That's all.

 

You're rationalizing one of the greatest violations against U.S. Citizens because of the times, FDR internment camps violated just about every constitutional right possible.

 

Not to even mention that today instead of interning people the CIA just spies on them.

 

Anyone recall the republican administration of NYC's police policies and spying operations on Muslims? How about the Dubya administration no-fly list?

 

Don't kid yourself, the spirit of what brought us Japanese internment camps 70 years ago is still alive and well in this nation, it's just much more insidiously implemented now thanks to technology.

 

There you go again trying to justify one wrong with another. I haven't seen anyone defending GWB actions but you're only defense of one of the "Greatest top 5 presidents of all time" is well look at what GWB did!

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I lean towards the Green party, actually.  And I'm not seeing what I want to see.  I'm seeing what's there.

 

The Bush policies of spying were bad.  I'm willing to admit that.  I'm sure most conservatives are willing to admit that.  Bush was by no means a Top 5 President, and you'll never hear most people claim that.

 

But the policy of Japanese-American internment was far worse.  And it cannot be excused because Hitler did worse to jews.  Unless you want to excuse that too.  I'm sure excuses could be made for Bush too.  But I won't hear you spouting them.  Because he's not a member of your party.  Anybody with a D next to there name gets a pass.  Anybody who has an R does not.

 

Go ahead and link the post where I endorsed interning people as good.

 

If your point is to say that I'm not damning enough of one of the greatest presidents the nation has ever had over a decision made during the worst war the world ever saw, then your point is misguided. I don't need to excuse the internment, I only have to believe that the rest of his presidency was far greater.

 

As Rollerjag stated, if you want to hold presidents to modern standards then most of them would come up short, but we judge them for the time they were in. In FDR's time the internment was seen as necessary.

 

Now we have Bush's surveillance state to keep everyone in a virtual prison all the time instead.

 

Also, to add, what is with the republican ignoring of the war on drugs and the disenfranchisement it's caused for millions of black male Americans?

 

A hundred thousand Americans were denied their rights as citizens in the 1940s. Millions of black men are abused of their rights as citizens around the country right now.

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Go ahead and link the post where I endorsed interning people as good.

 

If your point is to say that I'm not damning enough of one of the greatest presidents the nation has ever had over a decision made during the worst war the world ever saw, then your point is misguided. I don't need to excuse the internment, I only have to believe that the rest of his presidency was far greater.

 

As Rollerjag stated, if you want to hold presidents to modern standards then most of them would come up short, but we judge them for the time they were in. In FDR's time the internment was seen as necessary.

 

Now we have Bush's surveillance state to keep everyone in a virtual prison all the time instead.

 

So Obama has ended the surveillance state? He's going into the end of his 2nd term, might be time for you to accept whats here today is here because he wants it to be.

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So Obama has ended the surveillance state? He's going into the end of his 2nd term, might be time for you to accept whats here today is here because he wants it to be.

 

Obama doesn't get a pass on that, just like he doesn't get a pass on the continued war on drugs, but those programs were devised by someone else.

 

They're both republican inventions.

 

Obama's problem isn't that he's liberal, his problem is that he isn't nearly liberal enough.

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Obama doesn't get a pass on that, just like he doesn't get a pass on the continued war on drugs, but those programs were devised by someone else.

 

They're both republican inventions.

 

Obama's problem isn't that he's liberal, his problem is that he isn't nearly liberal enough.

 

So because I oppose the war on drugs and the surveillance state do you consider me a liberal?

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