So because I oppose the war on drugs and the surveillance state do you consider me a liberal?

 

Yes, regardless of how misguided your voting record or perception of your self interests might be, in most ways you probably would find the outcomes of liberal rule far more agreeable than the outcomes of reactionary rule.

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Not to even mention that today instead of interning people the CIA just spies on them.

 

Anyone recall the republican administration of NYC's police policies and spying operations on Muslims? How about the Dubya administration no-fly list?

 

Don't kid yourself, the spirit of what brought us Japanese internment camps 70 years ago is still alive and well in this nation, it's just much more insidiously implemented now thanks to technology.

That doesn't make it any less a despicable act. Trying to rationalize the horrific treatment of fellow citizens can do nothing but set the stage for accepting future events. Glossing over and rationalizing the past is not the way to learn from clear mistakes. 

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Go ahead and link the post where I endorsed interning people as good.

 

If your point is to say that I'm not damning enough of one of the greatest presidents the nation has ever had over a decision made during the worst war the world ever saw, then your point is misguided. I don't need to excuse the internment, I only have to believe that the rest of his presidency was far greater.

 

As Rollerjag stated, if you want to hold presidents to modern standards then most of them would come up short, but we judge them for the time they were in. In FDR's time the internment was seen as necessary.

 

Now we have Bush's and Obama's surveillance state to keep everyone in a virtual prison all the time instead.

 

You still don't get it.  This isn't holding anyone to modern standards.  What he did -- even by his own time period's standard was terrible.  You keep throwing out there that "Well, we didn't treat them as badly as the Germans treated the Jews!"  as if that somehow makes it better.  They were denied their civil rights.  It doesn't matter that Hitler was worse.  Guess what?  No matter how much you think otherwise, Kim Jong Un is worse than George W. Bush.  And after the devastating attacks on 9/11, Bush reacted similar to FDR (Which you even admitted yourself, but decide to forgive FDR for because of what was going on, but not Bush because he's a conservative.)


His attempt to pack the bench of the supreme court was him trying to get around the checks and balances we have set up in this country.


The man is revered so well, but to quote The Dark Knight "You either die a hero, or live long enough to become a villain."  I think had FDR lasted a lot longer, he would not be as revered as he is today.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

That doesn't make it any less a despicable act. Trying to rationalize the horrific treatment of fellow citizens can do nothing but set the stage for accepting future events. Glossing over and rationalizing the past is not the way to learn from clear mistakes. 

 

Thanks for noting that. I'm not sure how many times I have to say that I don't think surveillance state and open air imprisonment is okay, but I consider the way the country is currently going (in a very republican direction) undesirable.

 

My main point is if you didn't like what happened out west to Japanese Americans yesteryear you should stop voting for right-leaning candidates today.

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You still don't get it.  This isn't holding anyone to modern standards.  What he did -- even by his own time period's standard was terrible.  You keep throwing out there that "Well, we didn't treat them as badly as the Germans treated the Jews!"  as if that somehow makes it better.  They were denied their civil rights.  It doesn't matter that Hitler was worse.  Guess what?  No matter how much you think otherwise, Kim Jong Un is worse than George W. Bush.  And after the devastating attacks on 9/11, Bush reacted similar to FDR (Which you even admitted yourself, but decide to forgive FDR for because of what was going on, but not Bush because he's a conservative.)


His attempt to pack the bench of the supreme court was him trying to get around the checks and balances we have set up in this country.


The man is revered so well, but to quote The Dark Knight "You either die a hero, or live long enough to become a villain."  I think had FDR lasted a lot longer, he would not be as revered as he is today.

 

I get it fine, you're the one that doesn't get it.

 

The underlying problems that were going on under FDR are still going on right now.

 

Why do you excuse the war on drugs causing hardship and denial of constitutional rights to millions of black men right now?

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Thanks for noting that. I'm not sure how many times I have to say that I don't think surveillance state and open air imprisonment is okay, but I consider the way the country is currently going (in a very republican direction) undesirable.

 

My main point is if you didn't like what happened out west to Japanese Americans yesteryear you should stop voting for right-leaning candidates today.

 

Yes, massive expansion of government power is really a core tenet of the republican party. 

 

It was a far left icon that put those Japanese into internment camps.  Clearly, everything is opposite in your little liberal fantasy world.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

You've got to be the most blindly partisan individual I've met yet. If they had a D in front of their name the Spying, bank bailouts, and now interment camps can all be justified or excused.

 

He's the primary reason I have stayed away from this side of the boards.  Some people you can not have a logical discussion with.  They are so blind to their point of view that they cant see the forest through the trees.

 

I can list as many stupid things Obama has done in his tenure as Bush did in his....and then homie would argue everything about Obama while adding 40 things for Bush.

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I get it fine, you're the one that doesn't get it.

 

The underlying problems that were going on under FDR are still going on right now.

 

Why do you excuse the war on drugs causing hardship and denial of constitutional rights to millions of black men right now?

 

I told you, I lean Green Party.  So I don't know where you're getting that I'm excusing the war on drugs.  You're just making stuff up now.  I'm probably further left than most people here, and I probably go further than most on what should be legalized.  (Nationally, for that matter.  Not just a matter for the states)

 

And you can't call a policy "Republican" if it's continued under both Republicans and Democrats.  When it's continued under both, it becomes a policy of both parties, unless one party tries to undo it.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Thanks for noting that. I'm not sure how many times I have to say that I don't think surveillance state and open air imprisonment is okay, but I consider the way the country is currently going (in a very republican direction) undesirable.

 

My main point is if you didn't like what happened out west to Japanese Americans yesteryear you should stop voting for right-leaning candidates today.

 

The country is going in a very Republican direction?  You are trending on delusional.

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I told you, I lean Green Party.  So I don't know where you're getting that I'm excusing the war on drugs.  You're just making stuff up now.  I'm probably further left than most people here, and I probably go further than most on what should be legalized.  (Nationally, for that matter.  Not just a matter for the states)

 

And you can't call a policy "Republican" if it's continued under both Republicans and Democrats.  When it's continued under both, it becomes a policy of both parties, unless one party tries to undo it.

 

If you're stuck on what happened 70 years ago as if it weren't still happening on a different scale right now then you're ignoring the war on drugs.

 

The democratic party is right leaning. They're both axles on the same trailer, but the republican is the end that's pulling the load to the right.

 

The nation has to stop supporting the rightward push before things can be balanced again. Part of that is recognizing what parts of our problems are initiated by which side.

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If you're stuck on what happened 70 years ago as if it weren't still happening on a different scale right now then you're ignoring the war on drugs.

 

The democratic party is right leaning. They're both axles on the same trailer, but the republican is the end that's pulling the load to the right.

 

The nation has to stop supporting the rightward push before things can be balanced again. Part of that is recognizing what parts of our problems are initiated by which side.

 

Oh sorry.  I thought you were capable of thinking of more than one thing at a time.  Silly me.  

 

Basically all you're saying is "The nation needs to do what I think is right, because I'm right, and they're wrong."  Which is exactly the problem with both sides of the aisle right now in the first place.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Oh sorry.  I thought you were capable of thinking of more than one thing at a time.  Silly me.  

 

Basically all you're saying is "The nation needs to do what I think is right, because I'm right, and they're wrong."  Which is exactly the problem with both sides of the aisle right now in the first place.

 

No, that's what you want to believe I'm saying.

 

What I'm saying is that we have a severe imbalance in our current political spectrum. Almost every current policy is right-wing or at best moderate.

 

Only lipservice is paid to very mildly left-wing policy changes like tax increases or social welfare increases.

 

However, we're getting off topic.

 

Dubya, bad. Obama not much better. FDR great in spite of his failings. War on drugs needs to be stopped.

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You're rationalizing one of the greatest violations against U.S. Citizens because of the times, FDR internment camps violated just about every constitutional right possible.

 

I'm not rationalizing anything, the point I was addressing was ranking presidents. Of course, mass internment of law abiding citizens is wrong, and one of the darkest periods of our history. But does it make FDR one of the top 5 worst presidents in the history of our country? Do you not take any other factors into consideration when making that list?

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

I'm not rationalizing anything, the point I was addressing was ranking presidents. Of course, mass internment of law abiding citizens is wrong, and one of the darkest periods of our history. But does it make FDR one of the top 5 worst presidents in the history of our country? Do you not take any other factors into consideration when making that list?

 

That alone should put him up there

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For what it's worth, 0bama was so outraged by seeing ISIS beheading Christians, including women and children that he ordered the Navy to drop exactly 2 500 lb bombs.


Like I said earlier. Someone is looking at their polling numbers. This was about as severe as a sternly worded teleprompter speech or a guided missile directed at an aspirin factory. Hopefully they hit something.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

For what it's worth, 0bama was so outraged by seeing ISIS beheading Christians, including women and children that he ordered the Navy to drop exactly 2 500 lb bombs.


Like I said earlier. Someone is looking at their polling numbers. This was about as severe as a sternly worded teleprompter speech or a guided missile directed at an aspirin factory. Hopefully they hit something.

ISIS is a scourge and a despicable group carrying out horrific acts on humans. 

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ISIS is a scourge and a despicable group carrying out horrific acts on humans.

And the response from the outraged president flexing his muscles matched that famous workout video of his from Poland.


They're beheading people BECAUSE they are Christians. This isn't some random thing going on. It's genocide based on faith. That can't be ignored. They don't share the beliefs of ISIS, so they're murdered.


The bombing was a laughable response by a weak leader who desperately needs to get something out in the press that helps his sagging poll numbers.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

And the response from the outraged president flexing his muscles matched that famous workout video of his from Poland.


They're beheading people BECAUSE they are Christians. This isn't some random thing going on. It's genocide based on faith. That can't be ignored. They don't share the beliefs of ISIS, so they're murdered.


The bombing was a laughable response by a weak leader who desperately needs to get something out in the press that helps his sagging poll numbers.

Perhaps it is just a political ploy. It very well could be the case. I think measured, precise strikes are the way to go. Would you rather full scale invasion again?

 

Aside from that, I've been around here reading long enough to know you are no idiot. They are not just killing christians and you know that. Why keep talking like christians are only group being slaughtered? They are all humans. HUMANS are being slaughtered. 

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Perhaps it is just a political ploy. It very well could be the case. I think measured, precise strikes are the way to go. Would you rather full scale invasion again?

 

Aside from that, I've been around here reading long enough to know you are no idiot. They are not just killing christians and you know that. Why keep talking like christians are only group being slaughtered? They are all humans. HUMANS are being slaughtered.

Is dropping 2 bombs really something you race to find a camera for? It's definitely political. Every action this bunch makes is about politics.


I'm pointing out that Christians are being slaughtered because that's the population being targeted. Why do you refuse to recognize that?

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I'm not rationalizing anything, the point I was addressing was ranking presidents. Of course, mass internment of law abiding citizens is wrong, and one of the darkest periods of our history. But does it make FDR one of the top 5 worst presidents in the history of our country? Do you not take any other factors into consideration when making that list?

 

Worst 5:

 

1. James Buchanan, his "leadership" inflamed the country to the point of armed conflict

2. Woodrow Wilson, the first Socialist president resulting in the income tax on a national level and the rise of Progressivism in US politics.

3. FDR. the New Deal expanded the government to monstrous size, the internment camps, his diplomatic failures at Yalta cost Eastern Europe 50 years of Communism and caused the entire Cold War

4. Obama, his failures in domestic and foreign policy will haunt us for a generation or more

5 .Carter, Two words, "Misery Index"

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato