You really think it's an opinion that age adjusted metrics alone is a terrible data point for making determinations for the general public regarding a disease that disproportionately affects the elderly? Get out of here with that garbage. You're not that dumb.

I think it's your opinion that the metrics you think are the most important aren't used in their analysis. That's the point, you criticize based on your assumptions and limited knowledge and act as if you're right. I don't know that you aren't, but I also don't know that you are. That's why we can't get anywhere with this conversation, you've based your position on something you don't know while I say that I don't know, so according you that makes you right and me wrong. We both don't know something but for you that's a win and me a loss (in some competition that you think we're in here). I based my comments on the topic of Winger's Tweet on facts that are known and you immediately turn the conversation to something else and act, as always, like I'm wrong. Just because we're talking about Covid vaccines doesn't automatically mean whatever I say is wrong. On topic, there are several vaccines that prompt a waiting period before you can donate blood or plasma; it's not a Covid conspiracy, it's been that way for decades.

We aren't in a competition, bro. I'm trying to get you to see how you're being lied to by greedy sociopaths. You can try to pigeonhole me in with the conspiracy theorists if you want, but my track record on this subject speaks volumes. That's only important because it shows I'm not "guessing" on this stuff, not because I'm "competing" with you.

You cannot know how effective the vaccine is without age-specific data. They have age-specific data, but they choose not to release it. Why not? If what you believe is true, why not? The answer should be obvious: It's because age-adjusted data crafts a better narrative. In year one of Covid, they released age-specific data, but they took it away because people started doing basic math. Your boy Fauci said that people were drawing the wrong conclusions, so they took that power away from us. Whether that was for well-meaning, but stupid reasons or if it's for nefarious or greedy reasons, I can't say for certain, but I do know for certain that we aren't working with good data anymore, as you freely admit above. I say that while acknowledging your experience of seeing people get very sick and dying from Covid. That's going to happen in a city of over a million people. Sorry you experienced that. However, that experience has nothing to do with how statistics works.

You can't know how effective the vaccine is for a 20-year-old without age-specific metrics. Drawing upon what I know before they took that data away, I suspect that this is a money grab, which is an opinion. Needing age-specific data to make good choices, on the other hand, is not an opinion.

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I think it's your opinion that the metrics you think are the most important aren't used in their analysis. That's the point, you criticize based on your assumptions and limited knowledge and act as if you're right. I don't know that you aren't, but I also don't know that you are. That's why we can't get anywhere with this conversation, you've based your position on something you don't know while I say that I don't know, so according you that makes you right and me wrong. We both don't know something but for you that's a win and me a loss (in some competition that you think we're in here). I based my comments on the topic of Winger's Tweet on facts that are known and you immediately turn the conversation to something else and act, as always, like I'm wrong. Just because we're talking about Covid vaccines doesn't automatically mean whatever I say is wrong. On topic, there are several vaccines that prompt a waiting period before you can donate blood or plasma; it's not a Covid conspiracy, it's been that way for decades.

We aren't in a competition, bro. I'm trying to get you to see how you're being lied to by greedy sociopaths. You can try to pigeonhole me in with the conspiracy theorists if you want, but my track record on this subject speaks volumes. That's only important because it shows I'm not "guessing" on this stuff, not because I'm "competing" with you.

You cannot know how effective the vaccine is without age-specific data. They have age-specific data, but they choose not to release it. Why not? If what you believe is true, why not? The answer should be obvious:  It's because age-adjusted data crafts a better narrative. In year one of Covid, they released age-specific data, but they took it away because people started doing basic math. Your boy Fauci said that people were drawing the wrong conclusions, so they took that power away from us. Whether that was for well-meaning, but stupid reasons or if it's for nefarious or greedy reasons, I can't say for certain, but I do know for certain that we aren't working with good data anymore, as you freely admit above. I say that while acknowledging your experience of seeing people get very sick and dying from Covid. That's going to happen in a city of over a million people. Sorry you experienced that. However, that experience has nothing to do with how statistics works.

You can't know how effective the vaccine is for a 20-year-old without age-specific metrics. Drawing upon what I know before they took that data away, I suspect that this is a money grab, which is an opinion. Needing age-specific data to make good choices, on the other hand, is not an opinion.

But what does that have to do with the waiting period for vaccination?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It has nothing to do with the waiting period. My comment was an age-adjusted comment, so-to-speak.

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It's going to take him experiencing problems first hand for him to change his mind. His defense will be that even though it does have some side effects, it's better than covid. He can't know or verify the truth of that, but it's what he believes.

Guillain Barre syndrome is most definitely not better than covid.

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It's going to take him experiencing problems first hand for him to change his mind. His defense will be that even though it does have some side effects, it's better than covid. He can't know or verify the truth of that, but it's what he believes.

Guillain Barre syndrome is most definitely not better than covid.

Like choosing between a 3rd degree burn and a stab wound.  Different.  Both very bad.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Guillain Barre syndrome is most definitely not better than covid.

Like choosing between a 3rd degree burn and a stab wound.  Different.  Both very bad.

Dude, I've had Covid twice that I know of and I'll take that over any long term side effects and disorders from a vaccine. Any vaccine. 

Do you even know what Guillain Barre syndrome is?

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Like choosing between a 3rd degree burn and a stab wound.  Different.  Both very bad.

Dude, I've had Covid twice that I know of and I'll take that over any long term side effects and disorders from a vaccine. Any vaccine. 

Do you even know what Guillain Barre syndrome is?

MIL had it bad, so yes. You can die from it.  But you can die from COVID too if you're not vaccinated.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Dude, I've had Covid twice that I know of and I'll take that over any long term side effects and disorders from a vaccine. Any vaccine. 

Do you even know what Guillain Barre syndrome is?

MIL had it bad, so yes. You can die from it.  But you can die from COVID too if you're not vaccinated.

Dude, you can die from almost anything. People have died from the regular flu. When it's your time it's your time.

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MIL had it bad, so yes. You can die from it.  But you can die from COVID too if you're not vaccinated.

Dude, you can die from almost anything. People have died from the regular flu. When it's your time it's your time.

Right and there's mild cases of both as well.  But because any case of either one might be severe and even deadly, very hard to choose the one over the other.

Not sure what you're disagreeing with me about...

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

It has nothing to do with the waiting period. My comment was an age-adjusted comment, so-to-speak.

So immaterial then, got it.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

No. The comment you're clinging to was immaterial. I never mentioned the vaccine waiting period for donating blood. My point still stands that you're not going to change your mind until it becomes painfully obvious you're wrong. It may never come.

I think both covid reactions and vaccine reactions are really rare among people under 60, so both camps get to point to anecdotal evidence as their own "truth." It's not like anything will ever become super obvious until it just isn't a thing anymore. However, I believe there's enough data to suggest that this vaccine is being sold to those without the data to support it, and the proof is that you can't point to the data.

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No. The comment you're clinging to was immaterial. I never mentioned the vaccine waiting period for donating blood. My point still stands that you're not going to change your mind until it becomes painfully obvious you're wrong. It may never come.

I think both covid reactions and vaccine reactions are really rare among people under 60, so both camps get to point to anecdotal evidence as their own "truth." It's not like anything will ever become super obvious until it just isn't a thing anymore. However, I believe there's enough data to suggest that this vaccine is being sold to those without the data to support it, and the proof is that you can't point to the data.

My point still stands that you're off topic, which makes this entire line of posting immaterial to the thread.

The whole problem with your line of reasoning here in your immaterial posting is that you think I have so duty to point you to some mystical dataset. I have nothing to prove, nor any responsibility to provide anything for you, because frankly, I don't care what you do or don't believe. Who am I to point you to anything and why do you have this belief that I do?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I'm not off topic. The original post was about a cdc study showing vaccines are more dangerous than we were led to believe. You jumped on a hyperbolic post without addressing the op. I took Stroud's next post to be directed at your general blind defense of the vaccine, which I believe you have and continue to do.

If you want to try to limit this discussion to your single defense of the waiting period for giving blood, then kudos. You got something right. Yay, you. You still have been the single biggest, unquestioning supporter of this vaccination without regard to good data. What would it take to change your mind?

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Dude, I've had Covid twice that I know of and I'll take that over any long term side effects and disorders from a vaccine. Any vaccine. 

Do you even know what Guillain Barre syndrome is?

MIL had it bad, so yes. You can die from it.  But you can die from COVID too if you're not vaccinated.

Go look at the info and studies being released from the UK. They are changing definitions of words now to stop the excess deaths and sickness they have.

There was also some newer stuff from the US that said almost all the deaths occurred in the hospital and were results from the treatment plan. They knew the plan didn't work but they were paid by the government, so the hospitals followed it. The government paid the hospitals to kill people and the doctors and nurses all went along with it.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

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Lol, he isn’t changing his mind. Once you are onboard with forcing people to take am experimental vaccine to sustain their livelihood, you have reached the point of no return.

I wasn't onboard with forced vaccination but am supportive of an employer's right to require it. I was not ok with the government mandating that employers mandate it either. So long as you attribute false positions to me then you can be right.

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I noticed your use of "require" over "force". It's the same thing when the ability to feed your family is on the line.

I can't remember the details, but believe you are in a leadership position in healthcare. Did you "require" your employees to get the vaccine?

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That's a sore subject for me in these debates, but I try to let it go. I like FSG, but he bought WAY into this narrative that vaccination was the only solution, and he fired employees that didn't take it. He and I got into a super-heated debate about it. I just couldn't believe how quick doctors and administrators blindly followed the status quo, including FSG, who I align with in many other areas.

On a side note, I blame hospital administrators for the state of healthcare. I don't think they have a backbone and keep bending over for big pharma and insurance, which is screwing the rest of us. But I digress.

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That's a sore subject for me in these debates, but I try to let it go. I like FSG, but he bought WAY into this narrative that vaccination was the only solution, and he fired employees that didn't take it. He and I got into a super-heated debate about it. I just couldn't believe how quick doctors and administrators blindly followed the status quo, including FSG, who I align with in many other areas.

On a side note, I blame hospital administrators for the state of healthcare. I don't think they have a backbone and keep bending over for big pharma and insurance, which is screwing the rest of us. But I digress.

I pretty much align with FSG on every other topic as well and was just as baffled as you on this one. I think he was already dug in so deep there was no turning back. The longterm effects of the experimental vaccine on the people he directly forced to take it is something he will have to live with.

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Yeah, but he also had to see the worst effects of Covid. I try to be as understanding as possible. If you're watching your hospital fill up with Covid patients... seeing people suffer and die... that's gotta play a role in your decision making. That said, that's not how statistics works. We had a real shortage of leadership during this crisis.

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I wasn't onboard with forced vaccination but am supportive of an employer's right to require it. I was not ok with the government mandating that employers mandate it either. So long as you attribute false positions to me then you can be right.

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I noticed your use of "require" over "force". It's the same thing when the ability to feed your family is on the line.

I can't remember the details,  but believe you are in a leadership position in healthcare. Did you "require" your employees to get the vaccine?

You only feel this way because of the vaccine, otherwise you would support an employer's right to set the terms of employment. And yes, healthcare workers were required to take the vaccine unless the person had a medical exemption, just like we do with a half dozen other vaccines. Again, the politics of this whole things clouds the practical and the truth, and we end up with mainstreamed conspiracy nuttiness like "the government paid hospitals to kill people."

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

That's a sore subject for me in these debates, but I try to let it go. I like FSG, but he bought WAY into this narrative that vaccination was the only solution, and he fired employees that didn't take it. He and I got into a super-heated debate about it. I just couldn't believe how quick doctors and administrators blindly followed the status quo, including FSG, who I align with in many other areas.

On a side note, I blame hospital administrators for the state of healthcare. I don't think they have a backbone and keep bending over for big pharma and insurance, which is screwing the rest of us. But I digress.

I pretty much align with FSG on every other topic as well and was just as baffled as you on this one. I think he was already dug in so deep there was no turning back. The longterm effects of the experimental vaccine on the people he directly forced to take it is something he will have to live with.

And this is where the bull [BLEEP] comes in. Weren't we all supposed to be dead from the short term effects of the vaccine already? Just like the climate freaks, your boys are going to keep pushing their dire predictions further and further out, even as they never come true. Just zealots of a different cult.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato