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Quote:Sorry I call [BAD WORD REMOVED] on your statement.  Give me the data you researched and we can talk.  A trip to any grocery store will refute that statement

If you see it at the grocery store, do you report it? 

To whom?  Middle class white male turns in single mother of 3 for buying candy and soda on EBT card.  Yeah that will go over real well.

It's rather easy to report fraud.  Surely if it's fraud you want to report them, right?  I mean how else are they going to know fraud is going on?  In fact you may even be eligible for a reward.


Here you go: http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/programs/pbi/fraud/

Quote:It's rather easy to report fraud.  Surely if it's fraud you want to report them, right?  I mean how else are they going to know fraud is going on?
 In fact you may even be eligible for a reward.


Here you go: http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/programs/pbi/fraud/

 

That might explain the 5% number. The other 95% could be fraud that is just not reported. OK, I'm sure it's nowhere close to 100% fraud, but the point remains.

Quote:That might explain the 5% number. The other 95% could be fraud that is just not reported. OK, I'm sure it's nowhere close to 100% fraud, but the point remains.

Also a lot of times businesses are the ones responsible, because they accept food stamps for these things when they aren't supposed to.  You can also report businesses that don't act lawfully with regards to food stamp purchases if you don't want to report individuals.

Quote:No your getting confused the EBT is the electronic balance transfer card issued by the Feds it loads several programs one of them Being the snap ( food stamps) program. But like TED said it's also used for cash assistance in some cases child support. When they use the card it prompts them to use the different programs for example at the grocery store they'd have to select the food stamps account to with draw cash or use it for something other then food they'd have to be receiving some other kind of assistance, welfare check child support something like that.

Ahhhh, well I guess I wasn't clear on the different programs. Thanks for the info.

Quote:All of it.  If you are capable of working then you should work...period!  Sitting on your duff and collecting subsidies is a slap in the face of every working American.  I say again, I have no problem with assisting people out of poverty.  Welfare for life does not do that.

I once decided to leave a second job I carried as a mechanic, and my boss, who I had an excellent relationship tasked me with finding my own replacement.


About a week later I went to a friends BBQ, where I met a guy who had lost his job as a GM tech something like 8 months prior. I offered him the position and he flat out refused because it was less than he had previously made at his old job, and argued why should he go back to work for less money when he can make nearly the same I was offering to do nothing?


I had to walk away without saying another word to him.

Quote:I once decided to leave a second job I carried as a mechanic, and my boss, who I had an excellent relationship tasked me with finding my own replacement.


About a week later I went to a friends BBQ, where I met a guy who had lost his job as a GM tech something like 8 months prior. I offered him the position and he flat out refused because it was less than he had previously made at his old job, and argued why should he go back to work for less money when he can make nearly the same I was offering to do nothing?


I had to walk away without saying another word to him.

Yup that's so common it drives me crazy. I'm all for helping people out but paying them to do nothing is beyond stupid.

Quote:I would be curious to have a look at your findings.

It's actually easy to find. California's human services department puts a lot of it on the web

Quote:It's actually easy to find. California's human services department puts a lot of it on the web

It's actually very difficult to abuse the food stamps program the problem is it's so broad the program isn't effective anymore.


I'm all for helping the poor hell a few times I've needed help In the past, the problem is how we do it. On principle the libertarian in me says no to all welfare it's charity through the force of government. The realist in me says if we just did it better I could swallow the forced charity issue.

Quote:Also a lot of times businesses are the ones responsible, because they accept food stamps for these things when they aren't supposed to.  You can also report businesses that don't act lawfully with regards to food stamp purchases if you don't want to report individuals.

 

I have heard of this happening.  I guy that I used to work with had roomates that were on food stamps.  He said that there was a convenience store near his home that would allow them to use food stamps to buy beer and cigarettes.

Quote:I once decided to leave a second job I carried as a mechanic, and my boss, who I had an excellent relationship tasked me with finding my own replacement.


About a week later I went to a friends BBQ, where I met a guy who had lost his job as a GM tech something like 8 months prior. I offered him the position and he flat out refused because it was less than he had previously made at his old job, and argued why should he go back to work for less money when he can make nearly the same I was offering to do nothing?


I had to walk away without saying another word to him.

 

I had a similar experience.  My sister-in-law was dating a guy that had been laid off and was collecting unemployment among other things.  Of course, there is a bit more to the story.  He was also a union worker, and even though he had been offered a couple of non-union jobs, he refused because he didn't want to be a "scab".  "Besides" he told me, "I can just kick back at home, get high and play video games while I collect unemployment and get food stamps".

 

I told my sister-in-law that her boyfriend was not welcome back to my home.  She dumped him a short time later.

Quote:It's actually easy to find. California's human services department puts a lot of it on the web

 

Link please.

Quote:Link please.

Google California department of Hunan services, you'll find it. It took me a couple hours to pull all the data, but it's there. I wish I still had the spread sheet... But I don't...I really wish I kept that research I did...


But trust me, it's about 5 percent fraud. It's not what Fox news would have you believe...


The vast majority of poor people are actually good honesty folks... It's a shame we only focus on the 5 percent and then assume they are all like that...

Quote:Google California department of Hunan services, you'll find it. It took me a couple hours to pull all the data, but it's there. I wish I still had the spread sheet... But I don't...I really wish I kept that research I did...


But trust me, it's about 5 percent fraud. It's not what Fox news would have you believe...


The vast majority of poor people are actually good honesty folks... It's a shame we only focus on the 5 percent and then assume they are all like that...

 

LOL.  Trust me, I don't get all of my information from FOX News.  In reality, I watch the network for about 20 minutes a day while I eat my lunch.  Occasionally I'll watch Bill O'Rielly for a bit before going to bed to see what he's babbling about.  I especially like the Water's World segment of his show.

 

I don't doubt or disagree with you that many of the poor people are good, honest people.  However, I'm interested to see how you came up with your 5% number.

Quote:LOL.  Trust me, I don't get all of my information from FOX News.  In reality, I watch the network for about 20 minutes a day while I eat my lunch.  Occasionally I'll watch Bill O'Rielly for a bit before going to bed to see what he's babbling about.  I especially like the Water's World segment of his show.

 

I don't doubt or disagree with you that many of the poor people are good, honest people.  However, I'm interested to see how you came up with your 5% number.

Trust him he did the research.  Can't provide a link but ask you to google it and spend a "couple" of hours re-researching it you will come to the same conclusion because the great state of California says so.

Quote:Trust him he did the research. Can't provide a link but ask you to google it and spend a "couple" of hours re-researching it you will come to the same conclusion because the great state of California says so.

Anchorman is a fair poster I give him the benefit of doubt. The number doesn't really matter the point he is trying to make is the vast majority use the system within the confines of the law. Which would be rather hard to disprove in all honesty, you can only really measure the people caught using the system outside it's legal confines so there's a real unknown variable there.


Now we can argue that the confines are not strict enough or the validity of the system itself but to focus on the exact percentage of abuse is kind of missing the point.


Even if the system produced 100% legal compliance the problem still persists, a vast majority of the population is incapable of the most basic task to human nature feeding their household. The solution we've presented is a broad check with no incentive to either make financial changes, or find other avenues of self sufficiency.

Quote:LOL.  Trust me, I don't get all of my information from FOX News.  In reality, I watch the network for about 20 minutes a day while I eat my lunch.  Occasionally I'll watch Bill O'Rielly for a bit before going to bed to see what he's babbling about.  I especially like the Water's World segment of his show.

 

I don't doubt or disagree with you that many of the poor people are good, honest people.  However, I'm interested to see how you came up with your 5% number.

 

 


Caseload

 

 

 

 

8.

Total cases open during the month (Item 8a plus 8b: also Items 6 plus 7)......

59

46,892

60

185,229


 

 

 


Section III.  Investigation Results

CalWORKs


(1)

 8.

Denials (Early Fraud)…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

142

1,179

 9.

Benefits reduced (Early Fraud)…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

147

472

10.

Discontinuances (Early Fraud)…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

152

414

11.

Referred for prosecution…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

157

125

12.

Referred to Administrative Disqualification Hearing (ADH)…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

162

22

13.

Restitution action…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

167

361

14.

Benefits reduced (not Early Fraud)…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

172

132

15.

Benefits discontinued (not Early Fraud)…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

177

320

16.

Fraud found, no adverse financial impact…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

182

276
 

 

Gotta head to work.  But here's a quick glimpse of July 2013 in California.  I have a feeling this table won't come over as I hope...  But I'm crossing my fingers...

Quote:That might explain the 5% number. The other 95% could be fraud that is just not reported. OK, I'm sure it's nowhere close to 100% fraud, but the point remains.

Actually, there are a lot of systems besides witness reporting that goes into curbing abuse...

Quote:It's actually very difficult to abuse the food stamps program the problem is it's so broad the program isn't effective anymore.


I'm all for helping the poor hell a few times I've needed help In the past, the problem is how we do it. On principle the libertarian in me says no to all welfare it's charity through the force of government. The realist in me says if we just did it better I could swallow the forced charity issue.

I think this would be a great new thread to discuss the topic. I never understood the concern of charity by government...