Quote:Why is a big family irresponsible? They've said the conditions they are in is temporary while they build a more permanent structure. I know it's outside the norm but if there's no abuse and the children are not in physical danger I tend to side with the parents, let them live as they see fit.
secondly when did responsibly become a condition of keeping your children, hell we have a whole lot of kids to grab up if we're only letting responsible people be parents.
Honestly, I don't know enough about the situation to really give a valid opinion. I'm just saying some things contradict themselves. Their family friend is raising money for their legal fees (that makes sense) and upgrades to home. If they are living intentionally then why would they need upgrades to their home? I guess my point is having 10 kids with another on the way is expensive, time consuming, etc... and that is hard to do in good conditions. Are they living this way by choice or doing so because they don't have the money to live any other way? Anyways, I don't disagree with you necessarily, but it just seems excessive to have that many kids and increases the hardship they face in those condtions.
Quote:Honestly, I don't know enough about the situation to really give a valid opinion. I'm just saying some things contradict themselves. Their family friend is raising money for their legal fees (that makes sense) and upgrades to home. If they are living intentionally then why would they need upgrades to their home? I guess my point is having 10 kids with another on the way is expensive, time consuming, etc... and that is hard to do in good conditions. Are they living this way by choice or doing so because they don't have the money to live any other way? Anyways, I don't disagree with you necessarily, but it just seems excessive to have that many kids and increases the hardship they face in those condtions.
They're Mormons and IIRC Mormons believe all forms of birth control is equal to abortion so they have LOTS of kids. It says in most of the articles I've read ( I just started looking into this a few days ago myself) They are in the process of building a permanent structure on the property but they're doing it themselves I guess? So it makes sense the upgrading the home needs funding, the whole back to basics thing is about homesteading. They're into the same concept I practice with raising my own poultry, harvesting my own vegetables and fruits, they go a little further with no electricity and no running water then myself but it's the same concept.
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1. Not an inclosed structure (only has 3 walls)
Not sure this is so, a building can have 3 sides if its triangular.
Quote:Not sure this is so, a building can have 3 sides if its triangular.
Good point but this one is doesn't I stand corrected on the previous statement.
Quote:They're Mormons and IIRC Mormons believe all forms of birth control is equal to abortion so they have LOTS of kids. It says in most of the articles I've read ( I just started looking into this a few days ago myself) They are in the process of building a permanent structure on the property but they're doing it themselves I guess? So it makes sense the upgrading the home needs funding, the whole back to basics thing is about homesteading. They're into the same concept I practice with raising my own poultry, harvesting my own vegetables and fruits, they go a little further with no electricity and no running water then myself but it's the same concept.
I'm not in favor of state taking kids fyi.
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Quote:Why is a big family irresponsible? They've said the conditions they are in is temporary while they build a more permanent structure. I know it's outside the norm but if there's no abuse and the children are not in physical danger I tend to side with the parents, let them live as they see fit.
secondly when did responsibly become a condition of keeping your children, hell we have a whole lot of kids to grab up if we're only letting responsible people be parents.
There's people who live off grid, and who unschool their children who say this family is doing a bad job. It seems people are jumping into defend this family because they homeschool their children.
The living conditions, even for an 'off the grid family' are terrible. How long is it going to take them to build a more permanent structure? Remember that 'cabin' (If you can even call it that) they're living in?
TWELVE people live in that. TWELVE.
Also - the Nauglers haven't met the conditions for homeschooling either. The... really lenient kentucky homeschooling conditions. The ones you posted earlier. They haven't filed any of the paperwork with the state.
Quote:There's people who live off grid, and who unschool their children who say this family is doing a bad job. It seems people are jumping into defend this family because they homeschool their children.
The living conditions, even for an 'off the grid family' are terrible. How long is it going to take them to build a more permanent structure? Remember that 'cabin' (If you can even call it that) they're living in? TWELVE people live in that. TWELVE.
Also - the Nauglers haven't met the conditions for homeschooling either. The... really lenient kentucky homeschooling conditions. The ones you posted earlier. They haven't filed any of the paperwork with the state.
There is certainly more to the story.
Quote:There's people who live off grid, and who unschool their children who say this family is doing a bad job. It seems people are jumping into defend this family because they homeschool their children.
The living conditions, even for an 'off the grid family' are terrible. How long is it going to take them to build a more permanent structure? Remember that 'cabin' (If you can even call it that) they're living in? TWELVE people live in that. TWELVE.
Also - the Nauglers haven't met the conditions for homeschooling either. The... really lenient kentucky homeschooling conditions. The ones you posted earlier. They haven't filed any of the paperwork with the state.
I hadn't seen that reported yet that would be a new update for sure. But I don't think that has anything to do with the kids being taken away, everything I've read on multiple reports refers to the living conditions being the reason the court oked the kids going into CPS custody while they look into it more.
Quote:I'm thinking out loud the problems with the living conditions tell me if I'm missing one.
1. Not an inclosed structure (only has 3 walls)
2. No running water
3. No climate control
Plenty of people live without running water so that's not a reason to take the children so it's either the structure or the lack of climate control?
You have an extremely loose description of what walls are based on the picture you posted. That thing looks like a giant version of the shelters seen during the depression. It's very sad to think of children being raised in that intentionally.
Quote:You have an extremely loose description of what walls are based on the picture you posted. That thing looks like a giant version of the shelters seen during the depression. It's very sad to think of children being raised in that intentionally.
fair enough, I'm not defending the structure they're calling home just looking for what are the legal definitions we're using to say this structure is unacceptable. I think without a clear definition of WHY this families living condition is unacceptable we could open the door to all kinds of problems.
Quote:fair enough, I'm not defending the structure they're calling home just looking for what are the legal definitions we're using to say this structure is unacceptable. I think without a clear definition of WHY this families living condition is unacceptable we could open the door to all kinds of problems.
I have stayed out of the conversations because I do not have kids so I do not think my opinion matters much. It is painful to think about those living conditions for children that have no choice in the matter though.
For me this goes back to one basic principle. Freedom.
Why is it that the State or the Federal Government has the authority to determine how a family should live and/or be educated? What good is government education if all it teaches is that every child must always come up with the "correct" answer?
Without knowing all of the details regarding this whole story, I don't approve of the government taking the children away.
Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart famously once wrote "...hard-core [BAD WORD REMOVED] is hard to define..." but "I know it when I see it."
Intolerable and inhumane living conditions may be hard to define, but I think I know it when I see it, and I'm pretty sure I see it in that "cabin."
Quote:For me this goes back to one basic principle. Freedom.
Why is it that the State or the Federal Government has the authority to determine how a family should live and/or be educated? What good is government education if all it teaches is that every child must always come up with the "correct" answer?
Without knowing all of the details regarding this whole story, I don't approve of the government taking the children away.
Freedom? Lol that is just a word without meaning. We aren't free, just freeer.