This is something I have been pondering for some time now. There is really no rhyme nor reason for it, but it is what it is. Back in the 1990's, Bill Clinton became the president of the United States. I didn't vote for the guy either time. However, in hindsight, he seemed to do an average job. Nothing spectacular, but respectable for the most part. To his credit, he seemed to have his heart in it for America and Americans. When his term in office ended, he tended to stay out of the limelight about as much as any exiting President, and handled his post-presidential life with at least a bit of class. Now, fast forward to 2008 when his "wife" threw her hat into the ring for Presidential consideration. Long story short, she lost to an unknown Senator who threw her a bone by making her SOS. She bungled that job horribly (not sure who was worse: her or Kerry). Then came 2016 and she was by all means "the anointed one. I remember seeing bumper stickers as early as 2013 that said, "I'm ready for Hillary"
After seeing the events unfold over the past 90 days or so, I couldn't be happier that President Trump won. One of the biggest reasons is the purpose of this post/thread. How can a seemingly decent enough guy be president and do an average job running the country be married to such a radical ideologue who's views aren't even close to being on par to her husbands? She is so far out in left field, good ol' Bill would have to use long distance billing just to speak to her.
I really don't understand how those two can come from the same family. I know it's family by marriage, but still.... I never thought of Bill Clinton as flat out un-American. I can say that about his wife and the preceding president without thinking twice.
It really is a strange thing. I wonder if Bill will try to get out once all the smoke clears from this past election. I certainly wouldn't blame him if he did.
Would you be asking this question if it was the other way round? Are women not allowed to have their own beliefs that may differ from their husbands?
Saying that what is so different about her ideology?
Quote:Would you be asking this question if it was the other way round? Are women not allowed to have their own beliefs that may differ from their husbands?
Saying that what is so different about her ideology?
Yes I would if things were reversed.
My husband claims to be a neocon though since being married to me for almost five years now and seeing there is a different POV he has moved more to center but it's still pretty far right for my taste. You can be very different in your political stance and still have a good marriage as long as you don't make it the focus of your life or marriage.
Quote:. How can a seemingly decent enough guy
Bill Clinton? Are you sure you're talking about the right guy?
Quote:My husband claims to be a neocon though since being married to me for almost five years now and seeing there is a different POV he has moved more to center but it's still pretty far right for my taste. You can be very different in your political stance and still have a good marriage as long as you don't make it the focus of your life or marriage.
The farther we place politics from your life's purpose, the better off we all are.
If you marry someone who's political views are so far right or left of yours... well... good luck.
Your moral compass and everything else about your views and beliefs are so far off... why would you be married? Why would you want to try and raise a family believing so differently?
-shrug- I mean... I'm all about mixing things up... but as someone just right of center... Anyone too much further right and she'll be condemning me to Hell. And if my sig. other is so too far left we'd fight about everything from taxes to Obamacare....
I suppose you could just not talk about who you vote for and the important grown up things in life...
that could make it work...
I liked Bill.
I warned my conservative friends that he was going to win, and told them I thought he should win. In a taunting way.
As I matured, I realized how childish I was. There wasn't anything wrong with Bush, only backlash against Desert Shield/Storm.
The impeachment was just. He earned it.
The blind backing of him and the way he, his wife, and his loyal followers attacked anyone who thought otherwise was disgusting.
It was the precursor of the politics we have today.
In our recent history, between the Bork hearings, the false claims on Clarence Thomas, and the Clinton impeachment divide... those were key divisions that were driven ever deeper in the sixteen years that followed Bush's son winning the 2000 election.
Quote:This is something I have been pondering for some time now. There is really no rhyme nor reason for it, but it is what it is. Back in the 1990's, Bill Clinton became the president of the United States. I didn't vote for the guy either time. However, in hindsight, he seemed to do an average job. Nothing spectacular, but respectable for the most part. To his credit, he seemed to have his heart in it for America and Americans. When his term in office ended, he tended to stay out of the limelight about as much as any exiting President, and handled his post-presidential life with at least a bit of class. Now, fast forward to 2008 when his "wife" threw her hat into the ring for Presidential consideration. Long story short, she lost to an unknown Senator who threw her a bone by making her SOS. She bungled that job horribly (not sure who was worse: her or Kerry). Then came 2016 and she was by all means "the anointed one. I remember seeing bumper stickers as early as 2013 that said, "I'm ready for Hillary"
After seeing the events unfold over the past 90 days or so, I couldn't be happier that President Trump won. One of the biggest reasons is the purpose of this post/thread. How can a seemingly decent enough guy be president and do an average job running the country be married to such a radical ideologue who's views aren't even close to being on par to her husbands? She is so far out in left field, good ol' Bill would have to use long distance billing just to speak to her.
I really don't understand how those two can come from the same family. I know it's family by marriage, but still.... I never thought of Bill Clinton as flat out un-American. I can say that about his wife and the preceding president without thinking twice.
It really is a strange thing. I wonder if Bill will try to get out once all the smoke clears from this past election. I certainly wouldn't blame him if he did.
I think it clearly illustrates how radicalized the ideals have become on the left, taking them even farther from the center of reason. The actions of their supporters, in both word and deed, show how militant the following is. It's quite startling when you stop to think about it, for those of us who have lived through the dramatic shift farther left since the 90s.
Bill was not radical. He was sensible. He did his share of triangulation and demagoguery, but that was his method. Again, as you said, the worst always seemed to come from his wife. She was the attack dog behind the scenes, making "enemies" lists and trying to discredit and destroy them. At the time, it was pretty outrageous. Today, it's become their modus operandi. Scarier still, their supportive media is not longer objective but complicit in their overt support of such smear campaigns. It clearly illustrates how far away from a common sense center the party and their followers have become.
So what's the mystery here? lol
That a husband and wife are different? I'm shocked!
Quote:If you marry someone who's political views are so far right or left of yours... well... good luck.
Your moral compass and everything else about your views and beliefs are so far off... why would you be married? Why would you want to try and raise a family believing so differently?
-shrug- I mean... I'm all about mixing things up... but as someone just right of center... Anyone too much further right and she'll be condemning me to Hell. And if my sig. other is so too far left we'd fight about everything from taxes to Obamacare....
I suppose you could just not talk about who you vote for and the important grown up things in life...
that could make it work...
I understand it's not easy, if not seemingly impossible.
However, if your religion is not politics, and you share in that religion you have a much better shot. I agree you have to have the same values.
I think that falls along the lines of general compatibility.
If whatever you are opposite about, and that topic is held extremely high on one or both's hierarchy so that there is a passion or commitment to that - that commitment will likely prevail over the commitment of the marriage.
IMO, it's about what is more important to the two. Is it the other person that's most important to their partner, or is their higher life's purpose/commitment/crusade something else. If so, that something else will win and they will not be happy without someone similarly committed to the same cause.
Quote:So what's the mystery here? lol
That a husband and wife are different? I'm shocked!
As usual, you add nothing of meaning.
Quote:As usual, you add nothing of meaning.
You're welcome!
Just doing my part to add more non-sense to one of the 100 threads you start. Carry on good sir.
Quote:If you marry someone who's political views are so far right or left of yours... well... good luck.
Not necessarily true.
Your moral compass and everything else about your views and beliefs are so far off... why would you be married? Why would you want to try and raise a family believing so differently?
As Pirkster point out, and I quote, "if your religion is not politics, and you share in that religion you have a much better shot. I agree you have to have the same values."
My moral compass doesn't come from my political beliefs, it comes from my Christian faith (which has only been a factor in the last 5.5 years) and in how I was raised. The same for my husband (he's been a Christian much longer than me.) At the base level we believe in the same things and we do hold the same values. Where we diverge is how politics should be involved in the lives of us and our nation. I believe government should not be involved in 99.9% of the crap they have their hands in, my husband believes they should be involved in things but not as much as the democrats think it should be.
A perfect example for us is abortion. Neither one of us believes it's the right choice with exception to situations of incest, rape and the life of the mother. Where we see different is he believes the government should get rid of Roe vs Wade and ban abortion with exception to the above listed. I believe the government has no business forcing that decision at all. It doesn't mean I believe abortion is right, it just means I don't believe the government should have any say in it.
-shrug- I mean... I'm all about mixing things up... but as someone just right of center... Anyone too much further right and she'll be condemning me to Hell. And if my sig. other is so too far left we'd fight about everything from taxes to Obamacare....
I suppose you could just not talk about who you vote for and the important grown up things in life...
that could make it work...
My father-in-law is one of the most conservative people I know. He would be considered far, far right when it comes to how he lives and what he believes in. But he votes democrat every single time. Why? I quote him in saying, "Because the rich man never did anything for me." I don't have the slightest idea where that thought even comes from since he worked for and retired from a telephone company that was owned by...... a rich man. His retirement and 401K stuff is invested and dealt with by...... rich men. For some reason that is his only reason for voting democrat even though they go against 99.9% of what he actually values. It's weird, but it is what it is. And my mother-in-law votes for whoever he votes for. She has no interest in learning about any of it. When I told her I was Libertarian she asked what it meant so I sent her a link to the Libertarian website that explains what it's all about. She was totally confused and didn't understand any of it because she doesn't educate herself on politics, period. That is a true low information voter.
Just my thoughts.
Hillary didn't start out far-left. In 2008 she was actually relatively moderate/neoliberal. The party forced her left, and she embraced it. Even Bill was forced left, but still from time-to-time reveals his moderate/neoliberal self.
Quote:Just my thoughts.
You disagreed but then basically stated that you and your husband are very much alike in your beliefs.
While you may differ slightly you aren't far away from each other.
My point was that a far left and a far right wouldn't or shouldn't get married because of just those reasons.
Your moral compass may be directed by your faith but not everyone is a Christian, or a Jew or a Muslim... some people's moral compass is set by the politics or the social environment they grew up around..
If you share in a religion.. you're obviously pretty close to the same base.
I have no religion, rather I'm agnostic... So I don't think I could marry someone who goes to church every Sunday and says their prayers every night. And likewise they wouldn't feel fully connected to me.
I couldn't be with someone who wants to abolish abortion or interfere with people's rights to marry.
On the same note... I couldn't marry someone who thinks our current welfare system works or thinks we can tax our way out of debt or into free healthcare.
Maybe it's me....but I've dated girls that fit both those scenarios and knew very quickly that having moral views so different, having kids and being married just seemed like a terrible idea.
I ended up with one much more close to center... and totally not into politics so we never have to argue over Trump lol
Quote:You disagreed but then basically stated that you and your husband are very much alike in your beliefs.
While you may differ slightly you aren't far away from each other.
My point was that a far left and a far right wouldn't or shouldn't get married because of just those reasons.
Your moral compass may be directed by your faith but not everyone is a Christian, or a Jew or a Muslim... some people's moral compass is set by the politics or the social environment they grew up around..
If you share in a religion.. you're obviously pretty close to the same base.
I have no religion, rather I'm agnostic... So I don't think I could marry someone who goes to church every Sunday and says their prayers every night. And likewise they wouldn't feel fully connected to me.
I couldn't be with someone who wants to abolish abortion or interfere with people's rights to marry.
On the same note... I couldn't marry someone who thinks our current welfare system works or thinks we can tax our way out of debt or into free healthcare.
Maybe it's me....but I've dated girls that fit both those scenarios and knew very quickly that having moral views so different, having kids and being married just seemed like a terrible idea.
I ended up with one much more close to center... and totally not into politics so we never have to argue over Trump lol
We are alike in our beliefs yes, but not so much when it comes to how the government should play a role. That doesn't seem like a big deal but we've had some interesting conversations because of it. Because government does play such a big role in how we all live our lives due to laws and bills passed and executive orders signed as well as court decisions, how you both see the government's role in daily living can be every bit as argumentative even if you have the same basic morals and values.
On the subject of gays getting married, on the base level we agree it's not right according to our beliefs, but in my opinion the government has no right to tell people who can get married as long as it's legal (both parties over 18) and both consent to the marriage. On a humanity level for lack of better words, I believe everyone should be able to decide for themselves. If, according to my beliefs, they are committing a sin then that's on them. If they ask me my opinion or what I believe I will tell them, but I'm not one to judge and the government shouldn't be judge, jury and executioner on the matter. My husband thinks gay marriage shouldn't be allowed at all.
I was not a Christian until 5 1/2 years ago so 39 years of my life was living a life that the majority of folks here would be shocked to hear about if all they know about me is what I post and how they perceive me. It has been a huge change in my outlook of things and there are many things I have yet to reconcile between my old life and how I now believe that I can't go into here due the CoC, but suffice it to say it's a learning and growing process both in my relationships with my friends and family in life as well as people and subjects discussed here. Sadly many religious folks are "burned at the stake of public opinion" because of a very vocal few who do not represent the majority as a whole and it makes us look like a bunch of crazy people who believe a bunch of crazy stuff and it makes for real dialogue with folks who don't believe almost impossible because of preconceived notions.
I'm pretty much a black sheep in my church because I wasn't born and raised into it and lived a life completely different from anything any of them have a clue about. If some of them knew, especially the older ones, they wouldn't talk to me again. The majority of them were born and raised in it, have never done anything other than what they've always done. Very insulated from the world and have no clue how life actually is and see everything in black and white. They have no clue of the grey areas. Those grey areas don't change what I believe to be true but they help me have compassion and empathy in ways the others do not. That is something my husband is slowly learning from me and it is allowing him to see that not everything fits into the boxes he has always thought things were supposed to fit into. That it's okay to disagree with something but at the same time see the human element and instead of judging, be more compassionate.
I think if Bill were running last year he'd have been just as far left as Obama and Hillary on many issues (probably not as far left as Bernie though) because that's only type of candidate the party is putting up now. I think it's more about the current political climate and the current make up of the electorate which is more accepting of far left ideas. Bill was President not long after the Reagan era where far left ideas were largely rejected by the electorate of that time. Whatever his core beliefs truly are, he's smart enough to have known that far left ideas weren't going to win national elections in the early 90's.
Many people forget or don't seem to understand that part of Bill Clinton's successes as President were because he had a Republican congress to
work with. I must credit him with actually working across the political aisle. I recommend a very good read entitled "
The Pact: Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich, and the Rivalry that Defined a Generation". I have the book in my digital library and am willing to loan it to anyone interested in reading it. Just send me a PM.
Quote:Many people forget or don't seem to understand that part of Bill Clinton's successes as President were because he had a Republican congress to work with. I must credit him with actually working across the political aisle. I recommend a very good read entitled "The Pact: Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich, and the Rivalry that Defined a Generation". I have the book in my digital library and am willing to loan it to anyone interested in reading it. Just send me a PM.
It is helpful if everyone would work together but that's not the climate this country is in now, politically or otherwise. I would totally read that book but I have about three I'm trying to get through as it is. Plus I go through stages where I want to read about politics then it's about WW2 or veterans of war then it's about former Presidents and so on.