What a lot of people forget is that even in a down market you can still make a lot of money. If you have some foresight and short a stock, you can sometimes get a good pay off. Based on seasons/prospects, its a good strategy.
Quote:What a lot of people forget is that even in a down market you can still make a lot of money. If you have some foresight and short a stock, you can sometimes get a good pay off. Based on seasons/prospects, its a good strategy.
That's true as well. I'm not big on shorting, but other people make lots of money doing it...Buy in on the dips!
Quote:What a lot of people forget is that even in a down market you can still make a lot of money. If you have some foresight and short a stock, you can sometimes get a good pay off. Based on seasons/prospects, its a good strategy.
If you can do that, then congratulations, there is a job waiting for you on Wall Street. And you won't be sitting with us peons in the stands, you will have a sky box.
I just don't believe you can do that with enough consistency to avoid losing money.
If you buy "long" your risk is limited to your investment. If you short, your risk is theoretically unlimited. Think about that. Besides, do you really think you know more about what's happening at Acme Novelties than the average hedge fund manager who is doing this 24/7 and has a pipeline of information that you don't have?
Quote:If you can do that, then congratulations, there is a job waiting for you on Wall Street. And you won't be sitting with us peons in the stands, you will have a sky box.
I just don't believe you can do that with enough consistency to avoid losing money.
If you buy "long" your risk is limited to your investment. If you short, your risk is theoretically unlimited. Think about that. Besides, do you really think you know more about what's happening at Acme Novelties than the average hedge fund manager who is doing this 24/7 and has a pipeline of information that you don't have?
That's why I don't use shorting as a strategy...I'm paranoid that if I short a stock it will go up and 3 days later my broker will call for me to cover after a big gain...Now if I were to see something like a huge lawsuit pending against a company or if I were invested in an airline and one of their planes crashed, I may take a chance and short, but as a general rule I don't like to short stocks...
Quote:If you can do that, then congratulations, there is a job waiting for you on Wall Street. And you won't be sitting with us peons in the stands, you will have a sky box.
I just don't believe you can do that with enough consistency to avoid losing money.
If you buy "long" your risk is limited to your investment. If you short, your risk is theoretically unlimited. Think about that. Besides, do you really think you know more about what's happening at Acme Novelties than the average hedge fund manager who is doing this 24/7 and has a pipeline of information that you don't have?
Unless large banks or hedge funds are paying for the information (which is entirely likely) they don't have much more of an advantage than anyone else. Their risk is typically just as big as yours.
There are factors and cycles with many stocks where you can make educated guesses on shorting them.
Edit: The average Joe may have trouble getting a credit limit with a broker so they can short a stock. It's not for everyone...and I don't have enough $$$$ to do it, but I know people that have and have done well. They also limit their risk.
Quote:Unless large banks or hedge funds are paying for the information (which is entirely likely) they don't have much more of an advantage than anyone else. Their risk is typically just as big as yours.
There are factors and cycles with many stocks where you can make educated guesses on shorting them.
Edit: The average Joe may have trouble getting a credit limit with a broker so they can short a stock. It's not for everyone...and I don't have enough $$$$ to do it, but I know people that have and have done well. They also limit their risk.
I'm sorry if I'm being overbearing here, but this is something that has interested me for a long time, so I have a lot to say about it.
1) The only way to limit your risk is to limit your gain.
2) Anyone who is telling you they are beating the the market is probably lying about it, because very few people (you can count them on one hand) can consistently beat the market average.
3) I doubt these people are telling you the truth. And if they are telling you the truth, I doubt they will also tell you when they lose back all the money they made.
Beating the market is hard. REAL hard. That's why people get paid millions to try and beat the market, and they almost all fail to do it. They might beat the market for one year, or even for several years, but eventually they get burned.
The average hedge fund has better information than you do because they are in effect standing right inside the company watching it. They know everything before you do.
To beat the market you have to have an aptitude for math, the ability to read a financial statement, iron-willed discipline, nerves of steel, and you have to work at it very very hard. There's no way around it. There's no short cut. If there were, we'd all be rich.
Quote:I'm sorry if I'm being overbearing here, but this is something that has interested me for a long time, so I have a lot to say about it.
1) The only way to limit your risk is to limit your gain.
2) Anyone who is telling you they are beating the the market is probably lying about it, because very few people (you can count them on one hand) can consistently beat the market average.
3) I doubt these people are telling you the truth. And if they are telling you the truth, I doubt they will also tell you when they lose back all the money they made.
Beating the market is hard. REAL hard. That's why people get paid millions to try and beat the market, and they almost all fail to do it. They might beat the market for one year, or even for several years, but eventually they get burned.
The average hedge fund has better information than you do because they are in effect standing right inside the company watching it. They know everything before you do.
To beat the market you have to have an aptitude for math, the ability to read a financial statement, iron-willed discipline, nerves of steel, and you have to work at it very very hard. There's no way around it. There's no short cut. If there were, we'd all be rich.
I'm not sure how you can infer all of this when you don't know me, who I work for, who I know, or what I do.
I've already said I'm not the one doing these trades. It's not for me....I don't have the funds, the proper education, or the means to do it. It doesn't mean people I work for, or what I've seen traded hasn't happened.
I'm not really into indexes or mutual funds, that's more retirement stuff. Very little flexibility, minimum investments, fees.
I used to mess with pink sheets a while ago, and did make some money, but I was amazed how much of a scam those companies were. Pretty much all of them. It's not even worth researching the company. The prices are just randomly raised/lowered by market makers. I mean you have all these companies and pretty much all of them are clearly scams, but the SEC does nothing. There are companies that issue endless amounts of worthless stocks, companies that constantly reverse split when their price reaches .0001 so that websites could still register a price. SEC is a joke.
Shorting is something I wouldn't even touch. Way too much complexity and uncertainty.
Quote:I'm not really into indexes or mutual funds, that's more retirement stuff. Very little flexibility, minimum investments, fees.
I used to mess with pink sheets a while ago, and did make some money, but I was amazed how much of a scam those companies were. Pretty much all of them. It's not even worth researching the company. The prices are just randomly raised/lowered by market makers. I mean you have all these companies and pretty much all of them are clearly scams, but the SEC does nothing. There are companies that issue endless amounts of worthless stocks, companies that constantly reverse split when their price reaches .0001 so that websites could still register a price. SEC is a joke.
Shorting is something I wouldn't even touch. Way too much complexity and uncertainty.
the indexes usually do fairly well...investing in blue chip companies takes a pretty good chunk of change to get started, all you find in retirement funds are mutual funds, target date funds and bonds which have very little return...I did fairly well in pink sheets but I don't have the time to sit and watch them all day which you have to...buying individual company stocks takes some money to get started as well REITS have been doing well too
Quote:I'm not sure how you can infer all of this when you don't know me, who I work for, who I know, or what I do.
I've already said I'm not the one doing these trades. It's not for me....I don't have the funds, the proper education, or the means to do it. It doesn't mean people I work for, or what I've seen traded hasn't happened.
Okay. Sorry if I offended you.
Quote:Okay. Sorry if I offended you.
I'm not offended, I just thought it was odd that someone assumed so much.
Quote:I'm not offended, I just thought it was odd that someone assumed so much.
Yeah...your brother is the jock, you could actually have brains!! :woot:
Just kidding Trav!!!!
Quote:I'm sorry if I'm being overbearing here, but this is something that has interested me for a long time, so I have a lot to say about it.
1) The only way to limit your risk is to limit your gain.
2) Anyone who is telling you they are beating the the market is probably lying about it, because very few people (you can count them on one hand) can consistently beat the market average.
3) I doubt these people are telling you the truth. And if they are telling you the truth, I doubt they will also tell you when they lose back all the money they made.
Beating the market is hard. REAL hard. That's why people get paid millions to try and beat the market, and they almost all fail to do it. They might beat the market for one year, or even for several years, but eventually they get burned.
The average hedge fund has better information than you do because they are in effect standing right inside the company watching it. They know everything before you do.
To beat the market you have to have an aptitude for math, the ability to read a financial statement, iron-willed discipline, nerves of steel, and you have to work at it very very hard. There's no way around it. There's no short cut. If there were, we'd all be rich.
I definitely agree that beating the market average is difficult however there are good performing stocks, decent ones and many bad ones if you stick with the good ones and know when to go in and out beating the market becomes a lot easier. For example on March 27th based off of what happened the previous day I purchased RGEN as soon as the market opened at 28.80 per share, right now I am up about 20% as RGEN closed yesterday at 34.75, not bad. It has been a nice ride but I am ready to take my gains and have placed a stop market order that will execute at 34.50, if it should fall that low. If the stock continues to rise my gains will continue to increase and I will most likely set my stop market order a little higher.
For comparisons sake SPY, the S&P 500, is up just 3.2% over the same period of time.
A few observations:
By the time a stock is "hot" it's typically too late to cash in on the ride.
Market "timing" isn't generally a good idea, even if seasoned.
Take a look at what the rich guys are buying/selling. Not suggesting to mirror their trades, but keep an eye on them. Maybe start with Buffett.
Motley Fool is a terrific beginner's resource for just about any topic.
Quote:A few observations:
By the time a stock is "hot" it's typically too late to cash in on the ride.
Market "timing" isn't generally a good idea, even if seasoned.
Take a look at what the rich guys are buying/selling. Not suggesting to mirror their trades, but keep an eye on them. Maybe start with Buffett.
Motley Fool is a terrific beginner's resource for just about any topic.
warren buffet was quoted once answering a the question how he made so much money in the stock market and he said " I always sell too early"
Quote:I definitely agree that beating the market average is difficult however there are good performing stocks, decent ones and many bad ones if you stick with the good ones and know when to go in and out beating the market becomes a lot easier. For example on March 27th based off of what happened the previous day I purchased RGEN as soon as the market opened at 28.80 per share, right now I am up about 20% as RGEN closed yesterday at 34.75, not bad. It has been a nice ride but I am ready to take my gains and have placed a stop market order that will execute at 34.50, if it should fall that low. If the stock continues to rise my gains will continue to increase and I will most likely set my stop market order a little higher.
For comparisons sake SPY, the S&P 500, is up just 3.2% over the same period of time.
What are your typical costs to buy and sell?
We have so many restrictions on trading where I work that I don't get into it too often. If you buy, you must hold a stock for 30 days and there are even more restrictions beyond that in many cases.
Quote:What are your typical costs to buy and sell?
We have so many restrictions on trading where I work that I don't get into it too often. If you buy, you must hold a stock for 30 days and there are even more restrictions beyond that in many cases.
My broker platform charges $10 per trade. So basically to buy and sell something you will pay $20 in commission.
I am. I have invested in the markets for about 30 years but I don't invest in individual stocks, I invest in mutual funds, bond funds, treasuries. I don't have the time to do the research on companies to make informed decisions so I let the fund managers do it for me. I figure if you have a fund with 500 companies in it then if 100 of them lose you have 400 of them win.
Regards...............the Chiefjag
The stock market is Vegas for the rich whom are bored and need things to do with their money.
Just like in Vegas the rich can take a huge loss and not care and find a way to still profit by simply owning the casinos for example (house rules), but the poor usually get screwed or make only enough to keep them traped in the game.
I avoid both like the plague, I dont like to gamble. Only bet on a sure thing if you do have to bet (the sure thing being something supported with over whelming easily verified facts).
Investing in the market is a long term investment. Over the last 10 years the DJIA went from 7900 in April 2003 to 18000 this week. There was a period from 2007 to 2010 where it dropped from 14000 to 7000 too. I sold when it dropped to 12000 then bought back in when it rose to 8800. The key to investing is start young with something, do it consistently, and over time you will accumulate a nice nest egg. Don't panic over normal swings, watch for trends. I'm glad I did.
Regards.....................the Chiefjag