Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Considering where he was drafted compared to where the the vast majority of those QBs you're comparing him to were taken, shows he's unfairly given more criticism/less credit than due.

 

Bill Polian thinks he'd still be with the Colts had he drafted Dalton to groom behind Manning.

Where he was drafted is irrelevant to my point, however.  IMO he ranks behind all of those guys I listed making him a below average to mediocre starter.

Quote:Where he was drafted is irrelevant to my point, however.  IMO he ranks behind all of those guys I listed making him a below average to mediocre starter.

 

It's relevant to my point, which you have responded to.

 

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.  Can't say I'm compelled to agree.

Jimmy Clausen, Quentin Coples, Melvin Ingram

Quote:Similar situations, I agree.

 

QBs that are better than Dalton IMO:

Tannehill

Brady

Flacco

Big Ben

Luck

Peyton Manning

Rivers

Romo

Eli Manning

Bradford (when healthy)

RG3

Cutler

Stafford

Rodgers

Ryan

Newton

Brees

Palmer (when healthy)

Wilson

 

Young QBs with potential to be better than Dalton:

Bortles

Bridgewater

Carr

Mett

Soon to be Winston and Mariota

 

Assuming I didn't miss anything, that would put him at 25th in the league.  I'm sure you may be able to make a case for a couple of those guys but I don't see how he's not ranked at best 20th, which makes him below average.

RG3, Tannehill, Brandford LOL, he has more playoff games then all of them combined with better stats, you can add Cutler and Stafford to that and he still has more playoff games then all them combined. 

Quote:I absolutely HATED the Derrick Harvey pick. With a passion. I was so upset when not only did we pick him, but traded up for him.

 

I didn't like Locker. I didn't really scout Gabbert since he was viewed as a top pick and I never considered he was an option.

 

Didn't like Amukamara, wasn't a Derrick Morgan fan.

 

I remember trying to rationalize both those picks.. At least Groves wasn't as big of risk, he had potential as a DE/ rush LB ( you could make that pick in any draft) .. I wanted Calais Campbell so bad and that should have been the pick.. Imagine how different things may have been if we had stayed at 28.. I'm convinced that was stock market crash of this team, and Garrard's rapid decline. 

I would say Geno... but it's not really going out on a limb to say a QB is gonna be a bust since so few of them turn out to be any good.  "I knew your powerball numbers werent gonna be a winner!!  I knew it!!!"

Quote:RG3, Tannehill, Brandford LOL, he has more playoff games then all of them combined with better stats, you can add Cutler and Stafford to that and he still has more playoff games then all them combined.

This isn't golf. He didn't get them to all those playoff games. Don't be shortsighted.

Quote:It's relevant to my point, which you have responded to.


That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Can't say I'm compelled to agree.

Fair enough. We will agree to disagree.

Quote:I remember trying to rationalize both those picks.. At least Groves wasn't as big of risk, he had potential as a DE/ rush LB ( you could make that pick in any draft) .. I wanted Calais Campbell so bad and that should have been the pick.. Imagine how different things may have been if we had stayed at 28.. I'm convinced that was stock market crash of this team, and Garrard's rapid decline. 

 

I figured at least one of the two would hit.  Yikes.  To play on a similar phrase some used last year... tweener purgatory.

Quote:I figured at least one of the two would hit.  Yikes.  To play on a similar phrase some used last year... tweener purgatory.

 

tweener purgatory, ha!

Plenty of QB's I have not been on the wagon for. But Michael Crabtree was one Im glad we didnt nab, I know he isnt horrible but living in 9er land I still believe he isnt very good either.

GABBERT

Quote:This isn't golf. He didn't get them to all those playoff games. Don't be shortsighted.

I know he didnt do it by himself, but you act like he Tim Tebow'ed them to the playoffs, he put up really good numbers for his first 4 years in the NFL. 

Quote:Here is the toot your own horn thread, what players you didnt want the Jaguars to draft that became a bust.

Particularly players a lot of people on this board wanted but you were against.

 

Two for me are Christian Ponder and Jason Smith LT Baylor, a lot of people on  this board wanted them bad

 

I got in a lot of arguments about Jason Smith lol, I flat out said he was gonna be a bust, and Ponder I told people exactly what he was small, week arm, not very athletic not gonna be a good NFL QB.

Tebow

Manziel

Pac Man Jones

Aaron Maybin

Jason Smith

Courtney Brown

Lawrence Phillips

Dion Jordan

 

To name a few...

Quote:Yes, because he carries the entire team on his back and he plays on both sides of the ball...

Seriously though, that team has been stacked on offense and defense. He's the one bringing it down. They'd be doing a lot better with a good QB.

That could be said for alot of NFL teams.

Anyway,, yes Dalton could be much better. But,, he wasn't near a top QB prospect coming out.

Plus,, I still firmly believe the Bengals playoff woes are mostly coaching. Marvin Lewis is 0-6 postseason,,, winning the AFCN twice and then getting embarrassed in 2 home playoff games before Dalton was even in the league.


Dalton has had 3 of his playoff games on the road,, with last season's game being ridiculously handicapped by injuries (Green, Gresham, Burfict, Mauluga, Eifert, Marvin Jones all were out). That's basically all their key players sans Hill/Bernard and Pacman Jones.


It's unlikely that an AFCN team gets 5 straight years of making it to the postseason. But if they do make it, and they lose again, Marvin Lewis likely will have to go.

Quote:I know he didnt do it by himself, but you act like he Tim Tebow'ed them to the playoffs, he put up really good numbers for his first 4 years in the NFL. 

He didn't up really good numbers every year.  And if all you're looking at is stats, then it's not going to tell the whole story.

 

Quote:That could be said for alot of NFL teams.

Anyway,, yes Dalton could be much better. But,, he wasn't near a top QB prospect coming out.

Plus,, I still firmly believe the Bengals playoff woes are mostly coaching. Marvin Lewis is 0-6 postseason,,, winning the AFCN twice and then getting embarrassed in 2 home playoff games before Dalton was even in the league.


Dalton has had 3 of his playoff games on the road,, with last season's game being ridiculously handicapped by injuries (Green, Gresham, Burfict, Mauluga, Eifert, Marvin Jones all were out). That's basically all their key players sans Hill/Bernard and Pacman Jones.


It's unlikely that an AFCN team gets 5 straight years of making it to the postseason. But if they do make it, and they lose again, Marvin Lewis likely will have to go.

Really, a lot of this I'm basing this off is watching him.  I see a very sporadic QB that is not clutch at all.  He can't throw the ball past 10 yards to save his life.  All he is is Matt Schaub and a game manager.


Maybe some Jags fans are just bias because he'd probably be an upgrade to what we've had here in the past, but go to any Bengal's message board and I doubt they are saying he's even an average QB.

 

Bengals were forced to sign him last year to a big contract unless they wanted Matt Casell or someone there, which they obviously don't.

A lot of people on this board can't wait to put Leonard Williams on this list.

Quote:Really, a lot of this I'm basing this off is watching him. I see a very sporadic QB that is not clutch at all. He can't throw the ball past 10 yards to save his life. All he is is Matt Schaub and a game manager.

Maybe some Jags fans are just bias because he'd probably be an upgrade to what we've had here in the past, but go to any Bengal's message board and I doubt they are saying he's even an average QB.

The Matt Schaub comparison is a very good one,, I absolutely see that.


Fans on the Bengals forums are about mixed when it comes to Dalton (many think he sux, many think he's decent). He's very inconsistent. One game he'll look great,, the next he'll be terrible. Personally, I think he's average, and that alot of the Bengals problems stem more from just Dalton himself. But, that's just me.


Anyway,,, kind of back to the thread topic:


The Bengals drafted a guy that turned out to be a major disappointment (very similar to J Blackmon).


Odell Thurman LB from UGA


I believe they drafted him in the first round (I know they drafted David Pollack,, and with their next pick they took Thurman).


His rookie year,, he was an absolute machine. He was all over the field, making play after play.

Then he got suspended (substance abuse I believe), never cleaned up, and that was that. I think maybe he tried a stint in the XFL or Arena league later,, but he was not even close to being the motor he was as a Bengal.


They called him the "Thurmanator," that didn't last long, lol.

Quote:A lot of people on this board can't wait to put Leonard Williams on this list.

I can't wait to put Mariota and Beasley on list lol