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https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20...s-arrived/
I remember hearing Steve Paluzzolo talk about this on a podcast a few weeks back, Apparently their college grades have already been used by some NFL teams.
Yep, they've been tweeting bits and pieces from their work for a while now. They just released their first draft bio podcast too, which is absolutely glorious. Basically took the exact words out of my mouth when it comes to Leonard Williams. Best listen of the day.
http://pffpodcast.podbean.com/e/cff-shor...Ek.twitter
Quote:Yep, they've been tweeting bits and pieces from their work for a while now. They just released their first draft bio podcast too, which is absolutely glorious. Basically took the exact words out of my mouth when it comes to Leonard Williams. Best listen of the day.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://pffpodcast.podbean.com/e/cff-short-leonard-williams/#.VSKNT806YEk.twitter'>http://pffpodcast.podbean.com/e/cff-short-leonard-williams/#.VSKNT806YEk.twitter</a>
What exactly did they say about Williams?
Quote:What exactly did they say about Williams?
-That he is a potentially great run stopper who is versatile, but an overrated pass rusher. Doesn't show the ability (or maybe effort) to chase plays, but good at blowing up plays directed at him.
-Mentioned how underwhelming he was on 3rd and long, as I have said many times was his worst down.
-CFF graded him as below average NCAA wide (includes everyone, not just among elite draft prospects) on pass rushing downs.
-Henry Anderson of Stanford showed much more pass rush skill, while holding up ok against the run, and could be taken a round later.
-They compared him to what Tyson Jackson was as a prospect, and what Cameron Jordan has been in the NFL. Not close to the Seymour or Kevin Williams (especially not the crazy Watt lite) comps. Unfortunately they didn't go to the Odrick comp, but Jordan has been my 2nd closest comp so I still agree.
-Said top 5 would be a reach, should go in the Cameron Jordan range. I even think he should go higher than that, however.
Just basically confirms what most draftniks have been saying recently, he's not a "tier of their own" non QB prospect like so many thought early on in the process.
It's only an 18 minute podcast it's well worth a listen.
Quote:-That he is a potentially great run stopper who is versatile, but an overrated pass rusher. Doesn't show the ability (or maybe effort) to chase plays, but good at blowing up plays directed at him.
-Mentioned how underwhelming he was on 3rd and long, as I have said many times was his worst down.
-CFF graded him as below average NCAA wide (includes everyone, not just among elite draft prospects) on pass rushing downs.
-Henry Anderson of Stanford showed much more pass rush skill, while holding up ok against the run, and could be taken a round later.
-They compared him to what Tyson Jackson was as a prospect, and what Cameron Jordan has been in the NFL. Not close to the Seymour or Kevin Williams (especially not the crazy Watt lite) comps. Unfortunately they didn't go to the Odrick comp, but Jordan has been my 2nd closest comp so I still agree.
-Said top 5 would be a reach, should go in the Cameron Jordan range. I even think he should go higher than that, however.
Just basically confirms what most draftniks have been saying recently, he's not a "tier of their own" non QB prospect like so many thought early on in the process.
It's only an 18 minute podcast it's well worth a listen.
Thanks for the break down. I'm at work so I can't listen to it currently. I'll check it out later.
Quote:Yep, they've been tweeting bits and pieces from their work for a while now. They just released their first draft bio podcast too, which is absolutely glorious. Basically took the exact words out of my mouth when it comes to Leonard Williams. Best listen of the day.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://pffpodcast.podbean.com/e/cff-short-leonard-williams/#.VSKNT806YEk.twitter'>http://pffpodcast.podbean.com/e/cff-short-leonard-williams/#.VSKNT806YEk.twitter</a>
Agreed with pretty much everything he had to say. I also think that Caldwell and company feel closer to this analysis of Williams than the other "draftniks" who think Williams is the best player in the draft.
I like Williams but we need a pass rusher. Fowler>Dupree>Beasley. I'd be happy with those 3 and they would make a greater impact than Williams would in our system. I would be very surprised if the Jags took Williams at 3.
Besides Cosell, PFF is the only media source I've seen that doesn't have him graded as the best non QB in the draft.
I tend to think that his flaws are coachable and the fact that he's only 20 years old still makes him a very intruiging prospect. He's not the #1 player I want if we're picking 3rd, but I wouldn't be disappointed either.
I was just thinking about this last night
Quote:Besides Cosell, PFF is the only media source I've seen that doesn't have him graded as the best non QB in the draft.
I tend to think that his flaws are coachable and the fact that he's only 20 years old still makes him a very intruiging prospect. He's not the #1 player I want if we're picking 3rd, but I wouldn't be disappointed either.
Well that's not really true. Just a quick look at my draftnik list on twitter shows a handful of well respected guys right away.
Justis Mosqueda @JuMosq
Why isn't Carl Davis a better prospect than Leonard Williams?
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Louis Riddick @LRiddickESPN ·
6 hours ago
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No. RT:
@Dan905:
@LRiddickESPN Lou what's your take on Leonard Williams? Would you take him in top 5?
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Beaux Jaxson @BeauxJaxson ·
5h5 hours ago
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its leonard williams day again huh? would you take jared odrick in the top 5 of a draft?
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Josh Norris @JoshNorris ·
5h5 hours ago
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@BeauxJaxson and would the Jags draft Jared Odrick after just signing him? Important questions.
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Hank Jones @HankJoness ·
5h5 hours ago
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@BeauxJaxson Jameis, Vic, Gregory only ones I personally can see as definitively better with no arguments.
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A.P. @ap575 ·
54m54 minutes ago
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If I'm going to have a final thought on Leo Williams, it's this. He's the Dante Fowler or Interior DL.
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A.P. @ap575 ·
54m54 minutes ago
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Going to be good, never amazing. You won't be upset you drafted him, but you'll always wonder if you had gone differently.
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A.P. @ap575 ·
50m50 minutes ago
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That was more of a "safe" vs "elite upside" thing, but I personally like Arik more than Williams.
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Quote:
I tend to think that his flaws are coachable and the fact that he's only 20 years old still makes him a very intruiging prospect. He's not the #1 player I want if we're picking 3rd, but I wouldn't be disappointed either.
The second part is correct though. His age is the biggest thing in his favor (same with Fowler).
TwitterScouts<sup>TM</sup> loves them some TwitterScouts<sup>TM</sup>
Beware, is all I've got to say. There's more nonsense than sense in Twitter land...
Quote:TwitterScouts<sup>TM</sup> loves them some TwitterScouts<sup>TM</sup>
Beware, is all I've got to say. There's more nonsense than sense in Twitter land...
Yeah these blasted twitter guys that write for PFF, or the RSP, or FootballOutsiders. Who would possibly listen to guys that bust their butts writing for exceptional sources like that.
Quote:
Well that's not really true. Just a quick look at my draftnik list on twitter shows a handful of well respected guys right away.
<div>Justis Mosqueda @JuMosq
Why isn't Carl Davis a better prospect than Leonard Williams?
<div>Louis Riddick @LRiddickESPN · 6 hours ago
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No. RT:@Dan905: @LRiddickESPN Lou what's your take on Leonard Williams? Would you take him in top 5?
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<div>Beaux Jaxson @BeauxJaxson · 5h5 hours ago
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its leonard williams day again huh? would you take jared odrick in the top 5 of a draft?
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<div>Josh Norris @JoshNorris · 5h5 hours ago
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.@BeauxJaxson and would the Jags draft Jared Odrick after just signing him? Important questions.
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<div>Hank Jones @HankJoness · 5h5 hours ago
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@BeauxJaxson Jameis, Vic, Gregory only ones I personally can see as definitively better with no arguments.
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A.P. @ap575 · 54m54 minutes ago
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If I'm going to have a final thought on Leo Williams, it's this. He's the Dante Fowler or Interior DL.
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<div>A.P. @ap575 · 54m54 minutes ago
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Going to be good, never amazing. You won't be upset you drafted him, but you'll always wonder if you had gone differently.
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<div>A.P. @ap575 · 50m50 minutes ago
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That was more of a "safe" vs "elite upside" thing, but I personally like Arik more than Williams.
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Where were these guys a month ago before the Cosell article came out?
I get it that LW might've been a bit overhyped early in the draft process, but I would be very surprised if he isn't one of the 5 best players in the draft when we look back 3-4 years from now.
Quote:Where were these guys a month ago before the Cosell article came out?
I get it that LW might've been a bit overhyped early in the draft process, but I would be very surprised if he isn't one of the 5 best players in the draft when we look back 3-4 years from now.
They were still there...like I said this was just what I found in like 30 seconds of looking through my draft specific twitter list.
Here is their podcast on Vic Beasley. Not nearly as in depth as the LW one (6 minutes shorter), but still a very good listen.
http://pffpodcast.podbean.com/e/cff-shor...bQ.twitter
I can do a little recap like Karnn wanted for the LW one.
-Best first step in the class. Robert Quinn level explosion.
-Worried about so many pure speed rushes once it's against NFL OTs, but...
-Only used an inside counter move 7 times last year, but turned 4 of them into sacks. "Didn't do it often, but he did it clinically" Showed he can, needs to try more consistently.
-Suggested he be on the Aldon Smith ~500-600 snap count as a rookie, but would be RoY level snaps if eased in properly. About 1,000 snaps is a full time player over 16 games.
-Is more complete against the run and than someone like Bruce Irvin, who has questions that he may never be a full time player.
-More net neutral against the run, but plenty good enough for NFL to carry him as a full time player quickly.
-Beasley more productive with hand in dirt, but could also translate to any scheme.
-2nd most important position in the draft, should be targeted as high as #3 by Jacksonville after QBs go 1-2 (and even if they don't go 1-2).
Both podcasts now PFF/CFF are convinced that QBs will/should go 1-2.
They confirmed to me that GM Dave Caldwell will draft the best WR in the draft Amari Cooper - Alabama
Quote:They were still there...like I said this was just what I found in like 30 seconds of looking through my draft specific twitter list.
OK, I'll bite, here's a quote from one of the ones you listed above
There's an argument that Leonard Williams may be the best overall player in this draft class, not just on the defensive line. Flipping between 4-3 defensive tackle and 3-4 defensive end in his three years at USC, he projects well into about any defense you can imagine.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/23825...ncy/page/4
Doesn't he look like a young Warren Sapp? The only question I have with the above link isn't that why they signed Odrick to replace Big Red Bryant at LE? and they resigned Tyson Alualu for depth.
Not crazy for GM Dave Caldwell to draft Williams after doing that because he did draft Luke even though he had Monroe.
Quote:OK, I'll bite, here's a quote from one of the ones you listed above
There's an argument that Leonard Williams may be the best overall player in this draft class, not just on the defensive line. Flipping between 4-3 defensive tackle and 3-4 defensive end in his three years at USC, he projects well into about any defense you can imagine.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/23825...ncy/page/4
I would say first that "there's an argument" and it being his argument are different, and second that mock drafts are way different than big boards.
Quote:Doesn't he look like a young Warren Sapp? Not crazy for GM Dave Caldwell to draft Williams after doing that because he did draft Luke even though he had Monroe.
Again, first...no. Heck no. Sapp was the best pass rushing DT I may have ever seen. LW is underwhelming in that aspect.
Second, not nearly the same. Not fair to compare Dave drafting the replacement for a guy he inherited from the previous regime who was also on the final year of his contract, and a guy that Dave personally handed a very large FA deal just one month ago.