Quote:I'm not going off just stats. Its his better stats plus more explosion (in literally every single benchmark). We're talking about the more productive player and the better athlete.
Obviously I think this is more clear cut than most, and no knock to Fowler at all, but I'm just trying to address some of these fallacies about Fowler somehow having a better year or better combine. I really haven't heard one convincing argument aside from his wider array of moves. And that's debatable.
Yes you are just going off of stats. If you were basing your opinion on anything else, you would not even mention stats at all, just what you see during games .If you want to argue about who is better, show us videos so we can see what they actually do and how they play. Numbers are totally meaningless without the game clips to back them up.
I am not saying Dante Fowler is better than Vic Beasley. Fowler is a versitle DE/OLB who would be an Otto in our defense. So you have to compare him to other pass rushers who played both OLB and DE every week and Beasley to other pass rushers who only do what he does. Fowler and Beasley is an apples to oranges comparison.
Fowler has the bulk to be a DE, Beasley is a OLB. The Jags use an LEO which is a hybrid of both. Fowler has the athleticism to play OLB. Beasley does not have the bulk to play DE. The OTTO thing is a mirage, an idea which didn't work well in practice. BCC had a good write up on the OTTO.
Why choose? Let the draft play out. I want Caldwell to trade down and hopefully one will be left to take (or Gregory or Ray) later in the first round.
Quote:Vernon Hargreaves and the secondary was the Gators defense. Hargreaves may very well be the #1 pick next year.
Yeah. He is a big time talent.
I like beasley fowler and gregory. No biggie to me who they choose.
Gotta go Fowler. Speed, strength, relentleness, and finesse. He's almost a perfect fit for us. Reminds me of Von Miller.
I do like Beasley as well.
Watching the DB cutups i came away feeling beasely was much much better then fowler.
Beasely plays stronger against the run and can actually move o linemen and not merely hold a spot. Hes the only one ive seen that consistently wins and provides pressure/sacks regardless of who is across.
It was either fowler or gregory that got abused and at one point intimidated by the alabama OT #74 in one of the vids. I mean whoever it was got walked around all game to the point i was impressed with the actual o lineman. Thats as close to NFL lineman as it gets.
I think people are getting too high on these popular tweener types. Both Gregory and Fowler lack the strength and bulk to handle the next level imo from watching what i can of them.
Quote:I like beasley fowler and gregory. No biggie to me who they choose.
No. You must dig your heels in the sand behind one player so you can say "I told ya so" in the future.
College stats and combine drills aren't the determining factors. Fowler is much more physical than Beasley. He can hold up against the run. He can take on blocks and create match-up advantages for other players on defence. He has way more versatility - at Florida he lined up at multiple spots. People forget that coming into the Combine, Beasley was seen as underweight, lacking in strength, and a bit of a one-trick pony.
It looks like Beasley has a hard time sheding blocks and more so against the larger guys. I guess some of that can be coached but to be a 3rd overall pick? Im good with whoever Gus and Dave pick.
Wow these spider charts are just strictly combine regurgitation.
They don't mean a damn thing.
Quote:College stats and combine drills aren't the determining factors. Fowler is much more physical than Beasley. He can hold up against the run. He can take on blocks and create match-up advantages for other players on defence. He has way more versatility - at Florida he lined up at multiple spots. People forget that coming into the Combine, Beasley was seen as underweight, lacking in strength, and a bit of a one-trick pony.
After the combine, was Vic Beasley still considered underweight, too weak, and a one-trick pony?
Quote:Watching the DB cutups i came away feeling beasely was much much better then fowler.
Beasely plays stronger against the run and can actually move o linemen and not merely hold a spot. Hes the only one ive seen that consistently wins and provides pressure/sacks regardless of who is across.
It was either fowler or gregory that got abused and at one point intimidated by the alabama OT #74 in one of the vids. I mean whoever it was got walked around all game to the point i was impressed with the actual o lineman. Thats as close to NFL lineman as it gets.
I think people are getting too high on these popular tweener types. Both Gregory and Fowler lack the strength and bulk to handle the next level imo from watching what i can of them.
Cam Robinson, future top 10 pick if he keeps developing and stays injury-free.
Quote:After the combine, was Vic Beasley still considered underweight, too weak, and a one-trick pony?
People were talking about him weighing 230-235 in college. The tape still says he doesn't anchor well, nor does he take on blocks and win too often. Technique or size, or both, whatever the reason is, Fowler does it better.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying the Combine
actually changed anything - just that perceptions have changed because of his performance. Now all of a sudden he's a top 5 can't miss prospect. Whatever your point is, or whatever you're insinuating I cannot tell, but I think my previous post makes it clear that I haven't forgotten about these issues with Beasley as a prospect.
Quote:People were talking about him weighing 230-235 in college. The tape still says he doesn't anchor well, nor does he take on blocks and win too often. Technique or size, or both, whatever the reason is, Fowler does it better.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying the Combine actually changed anything - just that perceptions have changed because of his performance. Now all of a sudden he's a top 5 can't miss prospect. Whatever your point is, or whatever you're insinuating I cannot tell, but I think my previous post makes it clear that I haven't forgotten about these issues with Beasley as a prospect.
Strength, anchoring the run are the knocks on Beasley (due to his size). He bulked up for the combine, and his bench numbers seem to show improved strength. The question that scouts will need to ask is, does that transfer? And will he be able to sustain that weight/strength during the season?
Quote: Now all of a sudden he's a top 5 can't miss prospect.
Most people thought he was damn near a top 5 can't miss prospect last year too, to be fair.
Quote:Watching the DB cutups i came away feeling beasely was much much better then fowler.
Beasely plays stronger against the run and can actually move o linemen and not merely hold a spot. Hes the only one ive seen that consistently wins and provides pressure/sacks regardless of who is across.
It was either fowler or gregory that got abused and at one point intimidated by the alabama OT #74 in one of the vids. I mean whoever it was got walked around all game to the point i was impressed with the actual o lineman. Thats as close to NFL lineman as it gets.
I think people are getting too high on these popular tweener types. Both Gregory and Fowler lack the strength and bulk to handle the next level imo from watching what i can of them.
It was Fowler getting mauled against Bama. I remember that game sticking out in my head as well.
I only viewed Beasley as a late first rounder last year because of his lack of pass rush moves and inability to consistantly set the edge. He was all speed. This year he was totally different, however. I watched him use an array of moves and become much more stout... The weight room and scale seem to reaffirm his dramatic improvement. The kid is legit.