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Quote:flsprtsgod, like to see that data.  I tried finding it, but didn't have any luck.  Without data your argument is just conjecture.

 

Harvard ok with you?

 

http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/olin...df/341.pdf

Quote:I don't have a problem with requiring parents to make sure their kids are buckled, but when someones of legal age their safety is their responsibility. That's just my view.

Adults should have the right to whatever they want when it concerns them. Even if they turn into missiles in the even of a crash. Your mantra is personal liberty except when it infringes on my liberty. You not wearing a seat belt, flying out through the windshield and hitting someone is infringing on their liberty no?

 

This feels like the same argument you tried to make against wand washing reminder signs.

Quote:Adults should have the right to whatever they want when it concerns them. Even if they turn into missiles in the even of a crash. Your mantra is personal liberty except when it infringes on my liberty. You not wearing a seat belt, flying out through the windshield and hitting someone is infringing on their liberty no?

 

This feels like the same argument you tried to make against wand washing reminder signs.

 

The arguments are similar if not the same that's why it sounds like it. I'm sorry but it's not governments role to prevent bodies from flying out of car windows. Even if we accept the fringe event happens, if you really wanted to stop bodies from flying out of windows we wouldn't have vehicles that could go over 100 mph.

E, just put your damn seat belt on.  

*If and when overpopulation hinders the sustainability of the human race, I'm sure the govt will mandate the removal of all safety devices from modes of transportation. 

Quote:E, just put your damn seat belt on.  

*If and when overpopulation hinders the sustainability of the human race, I'm sure the govt will mandate the removal of all safety devices from modes of transportation. 

 

Now you sound like my wife! I do it for liberty!

Quote:You can't just point to traffic fatalities going down and say look seat belts save lives. For starters the way cars are engineered and made today is completely different from 30 years ago. Any one if the features you could say the same thing look we are doing ___ less people are dying!


Secondly when did the qualification factor for legislation become it Saves lives and money? If that's the qualifier we're using then why the fuss over New Yorks big gulp law? Fat people drive up medical cost and who really needs a soft drink bigger than 32oz? It'll save lives if we can get fat people to drink less soft drinks and it'll save us money on the medical system. It's the same argument, nanny laws are nanny laws.

 

To your point wearing seatbelts does not save all lives, but they save the majority.

 

Case and point the family that was killed on the Buckman last week even if they wore seatbelts, the sheer force of impact, or even the fire resulting from the collision would have not have saved them if they were wearing seatbelts. 

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to wearing seatbelts with the advantages outweighing the other. 

 

http://www.ehow.com/list_5929638_disadva...rbags.html

Quote:The arguments are similar if not the same that's why it sounds like it. I'm sorry but it's not governments role to prevent bodies from flying out of car windows. Even if we accept the fringe event happens, if you really wanted to stop bodies from flying out of windows we wouldn't have vehicles that could go over 100 mph.

That's a silly argument. That's like arguing guns should not have safeties. If you didn't want bullets to come and put punchy holes in people we shouldn't have things that fires them. See how silly it sounds?

Quote:That's a silly argument. That's like arguing guns should not have safeties. If you didn't want bullets to come and put punchy holes in people we shouldn't have things that fires them. See how silly it sounds?

Not all guns have safeties. I own a few pistols that don't have a safety on purpose as a matter of fact. Granted I don't keep those loaded but a safety isn't mandated on all firearms.


You can't legislate responsibility anymore than you can legislate morality.

Quote:Not all guns have safeties. I own a few pistols that don't have a safety on purpose as a matter of fact. Granted I don't keep those loaded but a safety isn't mandated on all firearms.


You can't legislate responsibility anymore than you can legislate morality.

 

False statement. You CAN legislate both by creating a punishment for those who act irresponibly or immorally. Laws against murder are laws for a particular morality for instance.

Quote:False statement. You CAN legislate both by creating a punishment for those who act irresponibly or immorally. Laws against murder are laws for a particular morality for instance.

 

Ok I guess when you boil it all down you have a point. I'm talking about acts of morality or responsibility that do not deal directly with the loss of life of another. Furthermore those legislation doesn't prevent the acts they simple lay out consequences to the actions.

 

I'm not ready to take up a petition or make a big stink about some of the Nanny state laws we have, I just simply view them all as the same, unnecessary. Everyone including Anarchist agree that murder has no role in society.

 

Fun fact Anarchy is simply without rulers not without rules.

Quote:Not all guns have safeties. I own a few pistols that don't have a safety on purpose as a matter of fact. Granted I don't keep those loaded but a safety isn't mandated on all firearms.


You can't legislate responsibility anymore than you can legislate morality.

I thought guns were required to have safeties. Is that not true? That's frightening.

Quote:Ok I guess when you boil it all down you have a point. I'm talking about acts of morality or responsibility that do not deal directly with the loss of life of another. Furthermore those legislation doesn't prevent the acts they simple lay out consequences to the actions.

 

I'm not ready to take up a petition or make a big stink about some of the Nanny state laws we have, I just simply view them all as the same, unnecessary. Everyone including Anarchist agree that murder has no role in society.

 

Fun fact Anarchy is simply without rulers not without rules.

You would know the difference wouldn't you anarchist. That's exactly what an anarchist would say!   :thumbsup:

Quote:Ok I guess when you boil it all down you have a point. I'm talking about acts of morality or responsibility that do not deal directly with the loss of life of another. Furthermore those legislation doesn't prevent the acts they simple lay out consequences to the actions.

 

I'm not ready to take up a petition or make a big stink about some of the Nanny state laws we have, I just simply view them all as the same, unnecessary. Everyone including Anarchist agree that murder has no role in society.

 

Fun fact Anarchy is simply without rulers not without rules.

 

Uh huh. And if we're living in your Anarchy and I shoot you then who, exacly, takes up the cause of justice for you? Your family? Vigilantism? Nope, civil society requires a referee or you have nothing but chaos.

Quote:I thought guns were required to have safeties. Is that not true? That's frightening.

 

nope, not at all. I have a S&W Sigma 9MM with no safety on purpose. That one is kept in a special place......

Quote:You would know the difference wouldn't you anarchist. That's exactly what an anarchist would say!   :thumbsup:

 

 

Quote:Uh huh. And if we're living in your Anarchy and I shoot you then who, exacly, takes up the cause of justice for you? Your family? Vigilantism? Nope, civil society requires a referee or you have nothing but chaos.

 

Listen I'm not an Anarchist I just get where they're coming from...... :whistling:

Quote:nope, not at all. I have a S&W Sigma 9MM with no safety on purpose. That one is kept in a special place......

Gross 

Quote:Uh huh. And if we're living in your Anarchy and I shoot you then who, exacly, takes up the cause of justice for you? Your family? Vigilantism? Nope, civil society requires a referee or you have nothing but chaos.

 

I'm going to play straw anarcho-libertarian for a moment.

 

Who's going to take up the case for you?  It'll be a case for private police to handle.  His family will be able to hire private police to investigate the matter, and then it goes to private courts where upon both parties agree to the court.  Courts won't be corrupt because they'll lose business if they aren't fair.  Because both parties have to agree to the case.  


If both parties can't agree to a court, then it never goes to court.  But if you refuse all courts, then businesses will stop doing business with you because you're a risk to do business with because you refuse to go to court.

Quote:I thought guns were required to have safeties. Is that not true? That's frightening.

Don't be scared, but revolvers don't have a safety mechanism either. 

I don't know where he heard it, but my first firearms instructor (dad), ingrained in my brain that the best safety for a gun is between the ears of the person holding it.

That and "keep your booger hook off the bang switch until you're ready to shoot" (still makes me smile when I say it out loud).  But guess what, after shooting several hundred thousand rounds from a wide variety of firearms over my lifetime, I've never fired one unintentionally. 

Quote:I'm going to play straw anarcho-libertarian for a moment.

 

Who's going to take up the case for you?  It'll be a case for private police to handle.  His family will be able to hire private police to investigate the matter, and then it goes to private courts where upon both parties agree to the court.  Courts won't be corrupt because they'll lose business if they aren't fair.  Because both parties have to agree to the case.  


If both parties can't agree to a court, then it never goes to court.  But if you refuse all courts, then businesses will stop doing business with you because you're a risk to do business with because you refuse to go to court.

 

I don't recognize private police. <bang>

My uncle had an old model classic Rambler and it didn't have seatbelts..