Quote:I'm not blaming Evans for all of Cyp's issues, because he certainly needs to improve, but to think Evans inept play doesn't affect Cyp is ignorant, it's like saying a terrible LG doesn't affect a LT. I'm comparing Cyp to Chancellor because that's the role he plays in Gus Bradley’s defense genius, obviously finding a great FS isn't easy, but finding an upgrade over Evans (who’s arguably the worst starting FS in the league) isn't as daunting of a task.
Every player needs the guy next to him to play well... one guy not doing his job and big plays happen.
I think the point of contention is how much is Cyprien a victim of poor play happening from elsewhere, or is HE also one of the main culprits?
I think the answer is the latter. Cyp has missed a tons of tackles, takes terrible angles, makes almost no big plays, and consistently messes up. Not saying Evans is any better because he's not, but I honestly find both of our safeties as liabilities.
It's almost as bad as saying Gabbert hasn't played well because the offensive line sucks. Well, that's partially true - but the reality is that he's just no good.
I think Cyprien is vastly overrated and needs to make significant strides just to become an effective starter, much less anything else.
Quote:Right and I'm not saying that Evans doesn't have some impact on the play of Cyprien. But Cyprien main problem is he is missing a lot of tackles and taking horrid angles. The Ravens game he had 6 or 7 missed tackles in the FIRST HALF. Spin it how you want, but Evans has nothing to do with that. I actually am ok with Cyprien coverage wise. It os hos tackling that irks me.
A lot of guys miss tackles in the NFL, have you not noticed? I'm not saying Cyp is a probowl finished product, because he's not. But he's certainly a player that his big time physical upside and has flashed solid play at times, getting a competent FS will only help his development.
Quote:Every player needs the guy next to him to play well... one guy not doing his job and big plays happen.
I think the point of contention is how much is Cyprien a victim of poor play happening from elsewhere, or is HE also one of the main culprits?
I think the answer is the latter. Cyp has missed a tons of tackles, takes terrible angles, makes almost no big plays, and consistently messes up. Not saying Evans is any better because he's not, but I honestly find both of our safeties as liabilities.
It's almost as bad as saying Gabbert hasn't played well because the offensive line sucks. Well, that's partially true - but the reality is that he's just no good.
I think Cyprien is vastly overrated and needs to make significant strides just to become an effective starter, much less anything else.
Overrated by whom? Just because people aren't throwing in the towel on a
second year safet
y (like you are) doesn't mean they're overrating him. Most young safeties struggle their first 2-3 years in the league, Kenny Vaccaro was awful this year, so was Eric Reid (both guys was drafted ahead of Cyp). Haha Clinton-Dix (another 1st round pick) struggled, are they a lost cause as well? If Cyp is still making the same mistakes in year 3 that he made in year 1 & 2 I'll start to worry, until then I'll be patient and hope he keeps developing into the player the Jaguars envisioned him to be, again, acquiring a competent FS will allow Cyp to play to his strengths.
is this like when they said Derek Cox was a secret superstar in PFF?
Quote:is this like when they said Derek Cox was a secret superstar in PFF?
When Cox was playing well, they reported he was playing well.
When McCray was playing well, they reported he was playing well.
So yeah, it was just like that...
Quote:is this like when they said Derek Cox was a secret superstar in PFF?
Cox was not a bad player. He was just always injured.
You guys don't get it. It has to be one or the other. No middle ground allowed.
"suchaBustYouIdiotsLoveMediocrityArrrrgghhDerp!!!!"
or
"He'sTheBestEvaaarrrrr!!""
Quote:Overrated by whom? Just because people aren't throwing in the towel on a
second year safet
y (like you are) doesn't mean they're overrating him. Most young safeties struggle their first 2-3 years in the league, Kenny Vaccaro was awful this year, so was Eric Reid (both guys was drafted ahead of Cyp). Haha Clinton-Dix (another 1st round pick) struggled, are they a lost cause as well? If Cyp is still making the same mistakes in year 3 that he made in year 1 & 2 I'll start to worry, until then I'll be patient and hope he keeps developing into the player the Jaguars envisioned him to be, again, acquiring a competent FS will allow Cyp to play to his strengths.
I'm patient. He's gonna be the starter this year. If he doesn't improve significantly in year 3, it's bad news for the Jaguars and we will be looking for a new safety next year.
Quote:'Demetrius McCray Ranks Among Top Cornerbacks in the NFL' interesting read. I was real surprised at how well he played this year and believe with Colvin and him, we could have our corner stones in the secondary. Now all we need is a great FS to see if Cyprian will play out.
http://blackandteal.com/2015/02/17/demet...backs-nfl/
Don't need any stats to tell that. My eyes tell me he was the best on the team this year.
Cyprien sucks. I think he lowered the play of Evans. If he is supposed to be mimicking Chancellor then we might as well draft another strong safety now. Dude can't tackle in space for [BLEEP].
McCray is part of a long list of Jags who have played well and if they continue to grow this team will win. The Jags are at a fork in the road. On one side there is potential and wins, on the other side there is players who settle and more losses. Lets hope they chose potential and wins.
Shaq
thompson to replace Cyprien!!!!
Quote:Shaq
thompson to replace Cyprien!!!!
Despite all the buzz about moving him, I'd rather see him at WILL on our defense.
Quote:Despite all the buzz about moving him, I'd rather see him at WILL on our defense.
I like him as a LB, great speed and tackler. But would he make sense? We have weak side LB in Telvin Smith, MLB in Poz and we are looking for a OTTO LB right? where does WILL come in? Im not great with all these formations and positions.
He did play well . A true shutdown corner would be a compliment to the defence , but other areas need attention first . Something that can be eyed for the following off-season.
Quote:I like him as a LB, great speed and tackler. But would he make sense? We have weak side LB in Telvin Smith, MLB in Poz and we are looking for a OTTO LB right? where does WILL come in? Im not great with all these formations and positions.
IMO, he'd be a great fit where Telvin plays at WILL. Of course, we already have Telvin. WILL is the weakside where he'd have to cover, run defend, and rush occasionally. With that being where I see his fit being better, he'd have to be a better player for us to draft him. IMO, there are CBs that probably could do a better job of playing FS in the draft.
OTTO is our version of strongside or SAM backer. He's going to have to be stout against the run, cover, and rush occasionally as well. There are writeups on what Gus' vision of OTTO is, so I won't go into great detail.
With our defense, the difference between ours and traditional 4-3 base, is that the roles are greater than usual. To generate pressure, guys who aren't normally rushing are being asked to do that more often. In addition, they are also being asked to cover more because when you send someone on the rush, you lose and therefore must replace him in space with someone else. It confuses offenses with multiple fronts and non-traditional roles.
Quote:I like him as a LB, great speed and tackler. But would he make sense? We have weak side LB in Telvin Smith, MLB in Poz and we are looking for a OTTO LB right? where does WILL come in? Im not great with all these formations and positions.
I found a speech that Pete Carroll gave on his 4-3 Under Defense and I think it's a pretty good approximation of what Bradley and Co. are trying to implement here. Below is the Formation and how it will typically align against an Offense.
O
O
O O
O O O 0 O O O
C O 5 0 3 L C
M W
F
S
Where:
C - Cornerback
O - OTTO
5 - Strongside DE (Bryant)
0 - Noseguard (Miller)
3 - DT (Marks)
L - LEO
M - Mike
W - Will
F - Free Safety
S - Strongside Safety
Quote:I found a speech that Pete Carroll gave on his 4-3 Under Defense and I think it's a pretty good approximation of what Bradley and Co. are trying to implement here. Below is the Formation and how it will typically align against an Offense.
O
O
O O
O O O 0 O O O
C O 5 0 3 L C
M W
F
S
Where:
C - Cornerback
O - OTTO
5 - Strongside DE (Bryant)
0 - Noseguard (Miller)
3 - DT (Marks)
L - LEO
M - Mike
W - Will
F - Free Safety
S - Strongside Safety
That's a very cool map and overview. I think Caldwell is going to get his Free Safety and Otto this year for Bradley. As much as I would like to see and prefer Amari Cooper as our guy at #3. Everyone is leaning towards a DE/OLB/Tweener to be added onto the line and then I think Caldwell has to take a very serious run at Devin McCourty out of New England here in a few days once the market opens up. I think Colvin and McCray will continue to go grow as our starting cornerbacks. I think you look at the nickel position and have Ball/Gratz rotate in and out of there or on the outside for Colvin and McCray to catch a breather. But the Free Safety position needs a major upgrade. Cyprien I think will improve.
Quote:Yeah, but most think that Colvin is the guy, or potentially the guy. It's just funny how most experts have us either drafting or signing a CB biggest it is one of our "biggest" needs.
I think we have so many needs that unless you really know the team you don't know who REALLY sucks and who is being brought down.
Call me crazy but I need to see more of Colvin than 6-7 games to consider our CB situation solved