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They with some all star talent like LaFell, Vereen, Blount, and Amendola, not Rice, Taylor, and Craig.

Had Belichick been good / great before Brady, then I'd be inclined to put him as my GOAT. Brady is the best QB of all time, and Brady made Belichick the most successful head coach. 

 

When Brady goes, I bet you that Belichick will follow him into retirement.

Quote:Had Belichick been good / great before Brady, then I'd be inclined to put him as my GOAT. Brady is the best QB of all time, and Brady made Belichick the most successful head coach.


When Brady goes, I bet you that Belichick will follow him into retirement.

Brady is so clutch it's unreal.

Can't even be a debate now that Brady is the GOAT. To win 4 Superbowls in the free agency era, with the lack of superstars on that roster is incredible.

Nah.


Still winless against Coughlin/Eli Manning in the Super Bowl.  

Brady is without a doubt. Bilicheck might be tied for first with Lombardi. Lombardi was more dominant but in a different era. What Bilicheck has done in the FA era, EVEN WITH BRADY is an incredible feat.

Quote:They're on the Mount Rushmore of HC/QB pairings; Lombardi/Starr, Walsh/Montana, and Belichick/Brady.

 

Somewhere on that Mt. Rushmore of HC/ QB pairings I think Paul Brown and Otto Graham belong.  When combining their first 4 seasons in the old AAFC in which the Browns won all 4 League Championships and the next 6 seasons in the NFL in which they reached the NFL Championship game all 6 times and won 3 NFL Championships,   it's hard to imagine any pairing more accomplished.     Even with far less teams in those days,   it's hard to imagine any team reaching the league title game 10 straight times.  

Quote:Somewhere on that Mt. Rushmore of HC/ QB pairings I think Paul Brown and Otto Graham belong.  When combining their first 4 seasons in the old AAFC in which the Browns won all 4 League Championships and the next 6 seasons in the NFL in which they reached the NFL Championship game all 6 times and won 3 NFL Championships,   it's hard to imagine any pairing more accomplished.     Even with far less teams in those days,   it's hard to imagine any team reaching the league title game 10 straight times.

I completely agree. Unfortunately Paul Brown's tremendous success and impact on football and the NFL will only continue to fade into obscurity as the years pass. I understand that his accomplishments were in a era long ago, but he essentially created the modern NFL. I don't think he gets enough credit when people talk about the greatest coaches of all time and most definitely he and Otto Graham did tremendous things together.

Quote:I completely agree. Unfortunately Paul Brown's tremendous success and impact on football and the NFL will only continue to fade into obscurity as the years pass. I understand that his accomplishments were in a era long ago, but he essentially created the modern NFL. I don't think he gets enough credit when people talk about the greatest coaches of all time and most definitely he and Otto Graham did tremendous things together.

 

 Absolutely.   A strong case can be made that Paul Brown was the most innovative HC in NFL history,  in addition to possibly being the most successful HC.

 

 Bill Walsh was an Assistant Coach under Paul Brown in Cincinnati.   W/o Paul Brown paving the way,  there probably would never have been a SF 49ers dynasty.  

I say they're the worst QB and coach ever.  Done more to destroy the integrity of the game than anyone in 50 years.  It certainly looks like Goodell is running a successful cover-up on Deflategate.  I would not have allowed the Pats anywhere near the Super Bowl after being caught cheating like that.

Quote:I say they're the worst QB and coach ever.  Done more to destroy the integrity of the game than anyone in 50 years.  It certainly looks like Goodell is running a successful cover-up on Deflategate.  I would not have allowed the Pats anywhere near the Super Bowl after being caught cheating like that.

Hater. You just hate their success. A logical person wouldn't view it like you do. Dumb post.

Quote: Absolutely.   A strong case can be made that Paul Brown was the most innovative HC in NFL history,  in addition to possibly being the most successful HC.

 

 Bill Walsh was an Assistant Coach under Paul Brown in Cincinnati.   W/o Paul Brown paving the way,  there probably would never have been a SF 49ers dynasty.  

Paul Brown is someone I'd consider one of the Top 5 coaches of all time.  I wasn't alive for his era, but his contributions to the game are insane.  I don't think Belichick has really changed the way the game is played.  He has a terrible coaching tree.  And he's been little without Brady.  

I'd consider Walsh and Montana better. Imagine their stats if Montana played with today's rules that pamper the today's QB. Back then, when a QB got drilled, they got right back up and played and didn't cry to the refs for a flag.

 

Had Brady played back when people like Montana, Elway, Kelly, Marino, and later Aikman, I don't think he lasts half a season.

Quote:Nah.

Still winless against Coughlin/Eli Manning in the Super Bowl.

In both those Superbowls,, Brady led his team from behind to take the lead very late in the game. It's not his fault the Pats defense let him down at the end of both those Superbowls.


He did it again last night. Down 10 points, he led his team from behind very late to take the lead. Their defense almost let him down at the end for a 3rd straight time, but miraculously held on.


Brady has been clutch in every Superbowl, driving his team for scores near the end when they needed him.

People need to watch Joe Montana's Super Bowls to see what clutch really looks like.

Quote:People need to watch Joe Montana's Super Bowls to see what clutch really looks like.

Does leading your team back, down by 10 (in what amounts to the biggest second half comeback in super bowl history) not constitute as clutch?

I'm a little shocked nobody's mentioned Noll and Bradshaw.  They won four Super Bowls together after all.  Does that not get a mention?

Give me Joe Montana every day and Bill Walsh to boot.

 

Quote:I'm a little shocked nobody's mentioned Noll and Bradshaw.  They won four Super Bowls together after all.  Does that not get a mention?

 ^^ This as well

 

Heck with Brady Bellicheat.  Brady has the benefit of all the offensive rule changes and the whole don't breathe on the QB.

Quote:Does leading your team back, down by 10 (in what amounts to the biggest second half comeback in super bowl history) not constitute as clutch?

Not like Montana... Montana's last drive in Super Bowl 23 was, IMO, better.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-5mLe8n9QI

 

 

 

I will also go out on a limb and say that Montana did it without the adderall and beta blockers that many of today's athletes use.

Quote:People need to watch Joe Montana's Super Bowls to see what clutch really looks like.

Yes, Montana was great. But, I do believe Brady has been clutch at the end of Superbowls more than Montana did.


Brady's first 3 Superbowls,, he drove them at the end for game winning scores.


Brady's next 2 Superbowls,, he drove them near the end for go ahead TD's (only to watch the Pats defense give up the game right after that).


Brady's last Superbowl,, he was down 10 points to the best Defense in the league, and drove for 2 TDs in the last part of the game to take the lead (almost to watch the Pats defense almost give it away again).


Brady is the most clutch Superbowl QB ever, IMO.