Look at the playoffs. Every year it's essentially some combination of the same teams. Why? QB play.
Patriots
Seahawks
Packers
Ravens
Steelers
Carolina
Saints
Niners
Broncos
Colts
91% of the time these team success hinges on their Qbs. The QB play makes everything look good including the OC.
So relax. Let's hope Bortles can be a good player and hopefully elite QB in time.
If the OC was that irrelevant, they would not have fired the last guy.
So we've gone from scapegoating the last OC for everything that was wrong with the team to saying the OC doesn't matter.
Quote:If the OC was that irrelevant, they would not have fired the last guy.
He was fired for philosophical differences as stated by Gus.
Quote:So we've gone from scapegoating the last OC for everything that was wrong with the team to saying the OC doesn't matter.
So the OC makes all the teams above good? Or is it the QB? Pretty sure it's the QB. If Fisch had Brady or Rodgers he'd be called a genius.
You'll continue to waste first round picks; Leftwich, Gabbert, Bortles... if you don't have an OC that knows how to build an offense. You could take the QBs from any of the play off teams & the Jags will go nowhere if he doesn't know how to make that guy successful.
Quote:You'll continue to waste first round picks; Leftwich, Gabbert, Bortles... if you don't have an OC that knows how to build an offense. You could take the QBs from any of the play off teams & the Jags will go nowhere if he doesn't know how to make that guy successful.
They weren't going to be successful anyway. Didn't matter who there OC was. Some guys just don't have it. Drafting is basically a Lotto scratch off game.
Quote:So the OC makes all the teams above good? Or is it the QB? Pretty sure it's the QB. If Fisch had Brady or Rodgers he'd be called a genius.
Bortles was the 3rd pick. Rodgers was the 24th pick. Brady was the 199th pick. What makes you think Rodgers would be Rodgers or Brady would be Brady without the coaches they had? Coaching matters. It's no coincidence that the best rookie QB was the one who had Norv Turner as his OC.
Quote:Bortles was the 3rd pick. Rodgers was the 24th pick. Brady was the 199th pick. What makes you think Rodgers would be Rodgers or Brady would be Brady without the coaches they had? Coaching matters. It's no coincidence that the best rookie QB was the one who had Norv Turner as his OC.
Cause they have something coaches can't coach. The desire and the passion to excel and win, the intangibles, that's why they are great. Coaches can't give you that.
OC's come and go but the constants are the QBs....
New England has had a few different OCs and Brady is always good.
San Fran went through like 5 OCs with Alex Smith who had his best years after Harbaugh showed up (not sure who the 9ers OC was then but his improvement is credited to Harbaugh I am sure) and has regressed slightly in KC (does Andy Reid call the plays?)
If you don't have talent it matters little who is calling, designing, and running the playbooks.
If you have talent and it underperforms, that is when you look to coaching.
Now it matters somewhat... You need an OC that calls the right play in the right situation... play calling OCs matter... but ultimately it is up to the QB to execute and make the right reads/decisions.
Quote:They weren't going to be successful anyway. Didn't matter who there OC was. Some guys just don't have it. Drafting is basically a Lotto scratch off game.
I agree but If Leftwich could have stayed healthy he would have been pretty good. Maybe never elite but pretty good.
Bortles has already looked like more of a QB than Gabs ever did... so not sure why he even gets clumped together with the others.
TBH... this franchise has only missed badly on one QB, Gabbert... but that GM missed badly a lot.
What is so hard about letting Dave build this team his way and THEN judging the results.
It's not really the same teams every year. It's only that way for the AFC.
Heck, look at the Cardinals, and how they made the playoffs this year in spite of their QB play. And they're certainly no annual contenders.
Only 3 NFC teams haven't made the playoffs in the past 5 years (since 2011). It's 7 for the AFC.
Quote:Bortles was the 3rd pick. Rodgers was the 24th pick. Brady was the 199th pick. What makes you think Rodgers would be Rodgers or Brady would be Brady without the coaches they had? Coaching matters. It's no coincidence that the best rookie QB was the one who had Norv Turner as his OC.
Rodgers wasn't really that great. He was developed I'll give you that.
Brady just had it... scouts just missed there, for all the teams, and the Pats got lucky.
But if Brady had went to the Browns in that round... maybe he doesn't become great.
But if the Packers or the Pats had drafted Gabbert.... they would have never started him.
Tbh a lot of the teams on that list also had/have great defensive play this year and in the past. Even the colts D massively over performed this year like the cowboys D. its more than just the qb but the qb is important
Getting paid $1.5m for an irrelevant job must be nice.
I think it's important for rookie and young QB's to have an OC that know's how to pare down a play book and make the play book work to their strengths. If you read between the lines Gus has said Olsen is a good "developmental" coach, which make you think Fisch wasn't that and that's exactly what Blake needs right now. The plays being called aren't as important as a good teacher.
Quote:They weren't going to be successful anyway. Didn't matter who there OC was. Some guys just don't have it. Drafting is basically a Lotto scratch off game.
If you're talking about failures like Jamarcus Russell & Vince Young, yeah. But guys like Leftwich, David Carr, Kevin Kolb, Ryan Tannehill... those guys want to win, but they need a good team around them. That starts with having a good vision & being able to teach the skills needed to make that vision a reality.
QBs get to much credit when the team wins, to much blame when the team loses. The OC needs to be able to find a way to win with his talented QB to give that guy time to develop. Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger... those guys weren't elite when they won their first Super Bowls, but since their teams kept winning, they were allowed to develop into damn fine QBs.
The "talented guys" where it doesn't seem to matter who the OC is... guys like Peyton, Rivers, Stafford... those guys are rare. & just like Stafford doesn't have a lot of success in the league & we've seen Rivers go from one of the best to one of the worst, back to a top 10 QB... OC matters. Look at Matt Ryan... That's a talented dude, but his team just can't put it together right now. But since they had success early, he's allowed to "work through it" if he came into the league & the Falcons play like they have the last couple of years, he'd have been replaced by now.
I think "irrelevant" is a bit of a stretch. I do agree that the QB position is more important than the OC, however.
Quote:I agree but If Leftwich could have stayed healthy he would have been pretty good. Maybe never elite but pretty good.
Bortles has already looked like more of a QB than Gabs ever did... so not sure why he even gets clumped together with the others.
TBH... this franchise has only missed badly on one QB, Gabbert... but that GM missed badly a lot.
What is so hard about letting Dave build this team his way and THEN judging the results.
Leftwich left the Jaguars with a winning record as a starting QB. He wasn't spectacular, but in the right situation, he probably could have done pretty well. Unfortunately, he never found that ideal situation, and injuries just piled up on the guy. As a pure pocket passer, he had a great football IQ, a bazooka for an arm, a windmill delivery, long strider with no mobility, and was brittle as a piece of chalk. They drafted this guy and paired him with an offensive coordinator who was a Walsh disciple who was mostly a west coast offense guy, and stuck him behind a line that wasn't much better than what we saw last year. The one positive is that at least his line knew where he was. He wasn't scrambling out of the pocket.
Leftwich was unfortunate. Gabbert was truly a miss. He looked the part in shorts, was a practice warrior, but a miserable failure once the lights went on.