Exponential improvement the first 3 seasons under Del Rio, and a postseason berth to cap the third
2003: 5-11
2004: 9-7
2005: 12-4 (Playoffs)
By comparison, in the current regime
2013: 4-12
2014: 3-13
2015: TBD
In essence, Del Rio was also starting over with the drafting of Byron Leftwich, followed by the much discussed failed 1st rounders in Reggie Williams and Matt Jones in 04 and 05 consecutively, with just-guys like Troy Edwards, George Wrightster, JJ Stokes, Mathew Hatchett on offense, along with Mike Pearson and Maurice Williams bookending the Oline.
On defense, big free agent signing, Who?, failed epically, with effort guys like Rob Meier, Lionel Barnes and wily ole vet Paul Spicer patching the line, serviceable LBs in Akin Ayodele and Danny Clark (Mike Pete, we'll call good), and so-so contributions from Jason Craft, Marlon McCree, Deke Cooper, Kiwaukee Thomas and co on the back end. Double D developed game, Fernando Bryant, not so much.
I acknowledge that the age and experience of players in the current era are limited, and that JDR started with a dash of elite in Fred and Stroud (Big Hen was just in year 2, Mathis was a rookie in 03, Jimmy and TBrack were approaching twilight). Yet still, was the overall strength of personnel that much greater in the JDR/Shack beginnings compared to now, or did we underrate their accomplishments back then?
Indeed, we have moved on, but I'd appreciate some feedback from those who can truly compare the formative years of both eras. Arguably, JDR had better players overall to start his Jags career, but is the difference that marked to produce such a disparity in results from then to now? Plus, we were still reeling from cap jail; prime talent acquisition was an issue.
Fast forward to his last year as head coach in 2011 with the debilitating draft of Gabbert, Garrard's disruptively-timed and hex-illiciting release, Luke McCown as impromptu opening day QB, and a D on its last breath, they still conjured 5 Ws. In JDR's tenure, we went from average/good, which many jeered at, to this; the most futile stretch in franchise history. But, we craved full consistency. Let's tear down and build a long term squad.
So for now, we'll hold on to the cushy mantra of heading in the right direction, as the rest of the league pauses to allow us to surpass em. Yet, as it stands now, who can reasonably say we may even reach 0.5 in year 3 of the latest rebuild? I am genuinely curious to see what happens in Oakland if Del Rio is given a second chance, especially in familiar territory. If I had to choose, based on the above, I will try him out again. Shanahan is rehashed, grumpy and archaic.
To fellow posters from the days of Yore, kindly pass on my regards to Jagrams and Skeeter. It's been ages. Happy new year to all and may our fortunes take an overdue turn upwards. Go Jaguars.
J. Wright
Yes you can argue JDR is a better coach overall.
That roster was probably older though (not starting as many rookies) which is literally the only saving grace from this current regime.
That excuse won't work in 2015 and possibly in 2016 if they're not fired by then.
Yet still, was the overall strength of personnel that much greater in the JDR/Shack beginnings compared to now, or did we underrate their accomplishments back then?
Is this a joke question?
Let's see.
In 2003, the new regime got a declining (but still with some value) Mark Brunell, a promising second year QB in Garrard, an in his prime Fred Taylor, an older but still productive Jimmy Smith, a servicable tight end in Brady, a Pro Bowl level guard in Chris Naeole, an ascending center in Brad Meester, a servicable right tackle in Maurice Williams, two rising stud defensive tackles in Stroud/Henderson, two solid defensive ends in Spicer/Meier and a fringe Pro Bowl safety in Darius.
It is such a laughable question.
Would JDR still be with us if Eugene Smiff/Gabbert never happened and rather Caldwell and Khan took over then?
I did enjoy JDR for the most part, I was a bit on the sad side when he was fired. But past is the past and I hope our future gets better.
Quote:Would JDR still be with us if Eugene Smiff/Gabbert never happened and rather Caldwell and Khan took over then?
I would say yes. Because Gene got EVERYONE fired.
Quote:Would JDR still be with us if Eugene Smiff/Gabbert never happened and rather Caldwell and Khan took over then?
Maybe. But we have to remember that he did eventually loose the locker room near the end of his tenure. Whenever that happens its not going to end good.
Quote:Maybe. But we have to remember that he did eventually loose the locker room near the end of his tenure. Whenever that happens its not going to end good.
I think he was frustrated with the crappy players he had to deal with the last 3 years.
Quote:I think he was frustrated with the crappy players he had to deal with the last 3 years.
That won't get much better in Oakland, lol
Quote:That won't get much better in Oakland, lol
Yeah. I think I liked JDR because he fielded crap players, and still brought us to the playoffs. I don't think Bradley can do that with good players. Gene Smith did him in when he brought in D3 college players, and thought he was going to find every diamond in the rough. Gene Smith was such a moron, and it really ruined this place.
Quote:Yet still, was the overall strength of personnel that much greater in the JDR/Shack beginnings compared to now, or did we underrate their accomplishments back then?
Is this a joke question?
Let's see.
In 2003, the new regime got a declining (but still with some value) Mark Brunell, a promising second year QB in Garrard, an in his prime Fred Taylor, an older but still productive Jimmy Smith, a servicable tight end in Brady, a Pro Bowl level guard in Chris Naeole, an ascending center in Brad Meester, a servicable right tackle in Maurice Williams, two rising stud defensive tackles in Stroud/Henderson, two solid defensive ends in Spicer/Meier and a fringe Pro Bowl safety in Darius.
It is such a laughable question.
This.
JDR had wayyyyyyyyyyyy more established talent than Gus has had. They blew out almost the entire roster from the previous regime because of how bad the talent was.
Absolutely he was underappreciated. We could have won a superbowl with him. He made a great defense with a pretty decent offense despite horrible draft picks thanks to shack and gene.
just imagine for a minute if shack and gene wouldve hit on those draft picks before our playoff run of 2008.
edit: If we hit on those wr's we drafred after leftwich, we win 2008 superbowl easily. All we needed to beat NE that year was WR's who knew how to catch. Indy we decimated and both indy and chicago that year had choke QBs in manning and grossman
I'd take Jack back over this crap right now. We're 11-42 since he left with more L's on the horizon. I have zero faith in Gus to turn an apple over let alone a football franchise. He's a good coordinator and nothing more. People don't like change and will ride out with Gus and will be burned when he finally gets those papers to haul [BLEEP].
Del Rio inherited a roster that was still carrying several quality veterans. That wasn't the case when Gus took over. The talent and experience isn't even close between the two teams.
I still don't understand how people can't see that when Dave and Gus took over, it was like an expansion team without the extra draft picks. We had no blue chip plaayers like Fred, Stroud, and Hen. We had no quality veterans like Jimmy and Brackens. Our talent level was so low that it's quite amazing that we didn't have the 1st overall pick that first year with Dave.
Quote:Exponential improvement the first 3 seasons under Del Rio, and a postseason berth to cap the third
2003: 5-11
2004: 9-7
2005: 12-4 (Playoffs)
By comparison, in the current regime
2013: 4-12
2014: 3-13
2015: TBD
In essence, Del Rio was also starting over with the drafting of Byron Leftwich, followed by the much discussed failed 1st rounders in Reggie Williams and Matt Jones in 04 and 05 consecutively, with just-guys like Troy Edwards, George Wrightster, JJ Stokes, Mathew Hatchett on offense, along with Mike Pearson and Maurice Williams bookending the Oline.
On defense, big free agent signing, Who?, failed epically, with effort guys like Rob Meier, Lionel Barnes and wily ole vet Paul Spicer patching the line, serviceable LBs in Akin Ayodele and Danny Clark (Mike Pete, we'll call good), and so-so contributions from Jason Craft, Marlon McCree, Deke Cooper, Kiwaukee Thomas and co on the back end. Double D developed game, Fernando Bryant, not so much.
I acknowledge that the age and experience of players in the current era are limited, and that JDR started with a dash of elite in Fred and Stroud (Big Hen was just in year 2, Mathis was a rookie in 03, Jimmy and TBrack were approaching twilight). Yet still, was the overall strength of personnel that much greater in the JDR/Shack beginnings compared to now, or did we underrate their accomplishments back then?
Indeed, we have moved on, but I'd appreciate some feedback from those who can truly compare the formative years of both eras. Arguably, JDR had better players overall to start his Jags career, but is the difference that marked to produce such a disparity in results from then to now? Plus, we were still reeling from cap jail; prime talent acquisition was an issue.
Fast forward to his last year as head coach in 2011 with the debilitating draft of Gabbert, Garrard's disruptively-timed and hex-illiciting release, Luke McCown as impromptu opening day QB, and a D on its last breath, they still conjured 5 Ws. In JDR's tenure, we went from average/good, which many jeered at, to this; the most futile stretch in franchise history. But, we craved full consistency. Let's tear down and build a long term squad.
So for now, we'll hold on to the cushy mantra of heading in the right direction, as the rest of the league pauses to allow us to surpass em. Yet, as it stands now, who can reasonably say we may even reach 0.5 in year 3 of the latest rebuild? I am genuinely curious to see what happens in Oakland if Del Rio is given a second chance, especially in familiar territory. If I had to choose, based on the above, I will try him out again. Shanahan is rehashed, grumpy and archaic.
To fellow posters from the days of Yore, kindly pass on my regards to Jagrams and Skeeter. It's been ages. Happy new year to all and may our fortunes take an overdue turn upwards. Go Jaguars.
J. Wright
I always liked JDR and thought he was a decent coach but had hoped that the Jaguars couldve got an elite coach instead they went in the opposite direction Mularkey...... thats how i felt about them hiring that guy.
Quote:I always liked JDR and thought he was a decent coach but had hoped that the Jaguars couldve got an elite coach instead they went in the opposite direction Mularkey...... thats how i felt about them hiring that guy.
Hiring Mularkey to coach this team was probably the best move that could've been made. It ultimately assured that Gene Smith would be fired, and that the team would go in a completely different direction. Had they hired a coach who was marginally better, we may still be dealing with Gene Smith, and that needed to end.
Quote:Del Rio inherited a roster that was still carrying several quality veterans. That wasn't the case when Gus took over. The talent and experience isn't even close between the two teams.
Jack Del Rio's last season as a Jaguar 2011 his GM drafted Blaine Gabbert, Rackley as Guard, Cecil Shorts III, Prosikini Safety, and Rod Issac DB.
The ending depth chart that the new GM and HC received had Maurice Jones Drew HB - ProBowler, Poz ProBowler, D Smith in the playoffs right now
Tyson Alualu still on the team, DT Knighton Pot Roast been in playoffs back to back years, J Mincey on Cowboys in the playoffs starting, CJ Mosely, C Meester, Britton still playing as a guard on a different team, Mathis played on LIons in wild card game, D Landry in playoffs, FB Greg Jones great blocker, M lewis even current GM said he's incredible, G Selevie, LT Eugene Monroe starting for Ravens in playoffs, really too much talent to list at this link is the depth chart from that season
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Jackso...ars_season
The point is too often fans say this team lacks talent, that the team has to rebuild.... players not plays...
The team did have talent it just didnt work together... well...
Quote:Hiring Mularkey to coach this team was probably the best move that could've been made. It ultimately assured that Gene Smith would be fired, and that the team would go in a completely different direction. Had they hired a coach who was marginally better, we may still be dealing with Gene Smith, and that needed to end.
What does Gene Smith do now a days?
Sell cars?