Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Tyron Smith

Trent Williams

Jason Peters

Eugene Monroe

Joe Thomas

David Bakhtiari

Nate Solder

Brandon Albert

Duane Brown

Ryan Clady

Joe Staley

Russel Okung

 

who am I missing?

Sweet.  We let a good LT go for the Joke.

Quote:Sweet.  We let a good LT go for the Joke.

 

Monroe not playing well, so... nvm

 

his team is in the playoffs though, and I don't remember Flacco being pressured constantly like Bortles is.

Quote:Monroe not playing well, so... nvm

 

his team is in the playoffs though, and I don't remember Flacco being pressured constantly like Bortles is.

Monroe has played like an all pro compared to JOke.  They should have left him at RT and Monroe at LT.  The line wouldn't suck so much.

Quote:This proves my point that Luke should take steroids

Haha agreed.

According to an article from ESPN posted on Bleacher Report, "Caldwell and coach Gus Bradley have stressed that they are committed to Joeckel."

 

Well ok... how long does that commitment last though? It must be understood that this was, for all intent and purposes, Joeckels rookie season due to his injury last season. Still, Joeckel was a high draft pick, and one expects at least 'average' performance from such a high pick; not average compared to other rookies, but average compared to other professional tackles in general. 

 

Joeckel didn't produce average performance, even though he had the advantage compared to other 'true' rookies of some prior exposure in the NFL. He was a part of an offensive line that is/was 'historically' bad. Now some blame this on the presence of so many rookies on this line. So be it; but even with this understanding, the offensive line was too often just... awful! 

 

I realize that a large portion of this 'commitment' to Joeckel is fueled by the expenditure of a high draft pick on him by Caldwell. Dave Caldwell doesn't want this pick to be an epic 'bust' so it appears that he is going to commit to him until doing so becomes such a liability that action is unavoidable.

 

Commitment is usually a good thing; but blind commitment or commitment for the wrong reasons isn't. I hope Dave isn't going to sacrifice the team W/L record in what could prove to be a hopeless bid to save face regarding Joeckel. I would be very happy if Joeckel turned things around next season and really started looking like the guy we had hoped he would be by this point when drafted. All we can do is wait and see...

Quote:According to an article from ESPN posted on Bleacher Report, "Caldwell and coach Gus Bradley have stressed that they are committed to Joeckel."

 

Well ok... how long does that commitment last though? It must be understood that this was, for all intent and purposes, Joeckels rookie season due to his injury last season. Still, Joeckel was a high draft pick, and one expects at least 'average' performance from such a high pick; not average compared to other rookies, but average compared to other professional tackles in general. 

 

Joeckel didn't produce average performance, even though he had the advantage compared to other 'true' rookies of some prior exposure in the NFL. He was a part of an offensive line that is/was 'historically' bad. Now some blame this on the presence of so many rookies on this line. So be it; but even with this understanding, the offensive line was too often just... awful! 

 

I realize that a large portion of this 'commitment' to Joeckel is fueled by the expenditure of a high draft pick on him by Caldwell. Dave Caldwell doesn't want this pick to be an epic 'bust' so it appears that he is going to commit to him until doing so becomes such a liability that action is unavoidable.

 

Commitment is usually a good thing; but blind commitment or commitment for the wrong reasons isn't. I hope Dave isn't going to sacrifice the team W/L record in what could prove to be a hopeless bid to save face regarding Joeckel. I would be very happy if Joeckel turned things around next season and really started looking like the guy we had hoped he would be by this point when drafted. All we can do is wait and see...

 

All Luke has to do is be average and he's not going anywhere.  Unless you have a serious stroke of luck, he'd be hard to replace.

People are scavenger hunting for data to justify The Joke. Who cares about other teams? If anything that should've been a warning to Caldwell not to take him that high, being that most tackles aren't special these days. But no he takes him and he's been a damaged good trash bag.

Quote:People are scavenger hunting for data to justify The Joke. Who cares about other teams? If anything that should've been a warning to Caldwell not to take him that high being that most tackles aren't special these days. But no he takes him and he's been a damaged good trash bag.

To be perfectly fair, look at the thread where the first round of the 2013 draft was brought to light.  It looks like a disaster so far as the majority are struggling.

It's obvious that we have to let it play out with Joeckel.  We aren't getting his replacement yet.

Quote:To be perfectly fair, look at the thread where the first round of the 2013 draft was brought to light.  It looks like a disaster so far as the majority are struggling.

I know how that draft has been categorized as "weak" but I feel in that case you should take the best playmaker available. Not somebody who is "safe" just to limit the bust potential. It's been noted anyway that Caldwell thought The Joke was the best player in that draft, so he had no margin for error with that thought process.

I kind of agree with Badger.  Luke might as well risk it and take steroids since he's too weak to play LT

 

While we're at it, I also noticed that Ace Sanders was a much better punt returner when he was high. 

 

 

We need to juice up Luke and get Ace stoned.

You guys and your steroid advocating opinions are funny.  If he want's to do that to his body, we have no say.  But to want someone to do that to themselves to get your support isn't very humane.  Steroids are no joke, i've seen what they can do to people.

Quote:You guys and your steroid advocating opinions are funny.  If he want's to do that to his body, we have no say.  But to want someone to do that to themselves to get your support isn't very humane.  Steroids are no joke, i've seen what they can do to people.

... I think he was joking...(right?)

Quote:All Luke has to do is be average and he's not going anywhere.  Unless you have a serious stroke of luck, he'd be hard to replace.

but that's the thing! He wasn't even average, and I'm suggesting that for such a high draft pick 'average' (and understand that means average compared to veteran tackles, not other rookies...) is the minimum acceptable performance. If Joeckel can't 'get it together' this upcoming season, or at least show us that he's trending toward that,  then in my opinion he's turned into a pretty serious disappointment at LT.

What?  If he takes steroids, he can give up 6 good years, get his name in the ring of honor, then go to 1010xl.

Ive never been one of those people who think it is ok just because other players are struggling.


Doesn't make sense.

Would anyone be really mad if they announced that Luke Joeckel is suspended for 4 games for steroids?

I'd praise him for trying.

Been saying this all along. Most of them have been awful. Our luck.

Just had to go onto PFF and mine some more data for this discussion.

 

Let's start with our best rated tackle and cherry pick down some of the names who are worse.  PFF rates 84 tackles who took at least 25% of the snaps available at that position.  Number 55 of the 84 is our own Austin Pasztor, going down from Pasztor:

 

 

Rank  Name                          PFF rating          Draft Round   Pick number   Year

 

55       Austin Pasztor              -7.8                      F.A.                   -                  2012

56       Sam Young                    -8.8                       6th               179                 2010

56 tie   D.J. Fluker                     -8.8                      1st                   11                 2013

59        Gabe Carimi                 -10.1                     1st                   29                 2011

63        Eugene Monroe         -12.9                      1st                    8                  2009

67        Luke Joeckel              -15.8                      1st                   2                  2013

70        Gosder Cherilus           -16.8                      1st                  17                 2008

72        Eric Fisher                    -17.5                      1st                   1                  2013

75        Michael Oher                -20.2                      1st                 23                  2009

78        Greg Robinson             -24.3                       1st                  2                  2014

80        JaWan James              -28.4                       1st                 19                  2014

81        Matt Kalil                      -29.1                        1st                  4                  2012

84        Jake Matthews             -36.4                        1st                  6                  2014

 

 

When you compare our tackles to some other first round picks and to Eugene Monroe things don't look as bad as the o-line play looked on the field.  I completely agree with those who are upset at the terrible job the o-line did this year where I don't agree is that some or all of the players need to be replaced.  My reasons:

 

-Dead Fish offense

-Offensive line coach absent with cancer when a newly formed line needed him the most

-O-lines take time to learn to play together as a unit

-Overall failure of the offensive vets like Henne, Lewis, and Shorts to step up to the situation

-Youth and inexperience

-Too much inexperience in one place at one time

 

I think a new offensive coordinator, a new playbook and quality offensive line coaching are what we need more than different players at least until the existing group has a fair chance to prove their worth or lack thereof.