Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:I'm not entirely convinced that JPP is better than Chris Clemons.

LOL

Why are laughing? Over the past five seasons, JPP has 42 sacks compared to 45 1/2 for Clemons. Over the past three years, JPP has 22 sacks compared to 23 1/2 for Clemons. Quite frankly, JPP has to prove to me he's not injury prone.

Quote:It now seems likely that the Giants will place the Transition Tag on JPP to tie him up for a year. I am not sure if this will be done to hold on to the player or if the Giants management does not like not getting anything for JPP in return for him walking away.

 

Yet we all know if JPP does walk away, the Giants will most likely get a late Rd 3 compensational pick in the 2016 Draft for JPP leaving via Free Agency.

 

If indeed the Giants do place the Transition Tag on JPP, would you be opposed to the Jags offering up their Rd 4 selection (Pick 104) in trade for JPP?

 

This is essentially what the Jags did with Eugene Monroe and the Ravens.

 

The key here as I see it is having Leonard Williams at one DE spot and JPP manning the other.

 

Your thoughts or slings and arrows of disgust would be appreciated.

A fourth rounder for JPP?  I would be fine with that.  The odds of them actually taking that deal?  Slim to none. 

 

If they do put the Transition Tag on him, I'd see a situation similar to what we saw with Mack last year where the Giants would let a team like the Jags negotiate a deal and then decide if they want to find a way to make that work for them.  With the available cap room the Jags have vs. the Giants, we can pretty much craft a deal that assures they won't be able to match.  If the team was serious about pursuing him, it wouldn't take much considering the Jags are currently walking around with $61 million, and the Giants have what?  $16 million to work with?

 

Now, I read the other day where the Giants are actually considering using the franchise tag on him.  If that happens, the draft compensation that would be needed to pry him from their roster would be too much.  Draft one of the studs and move on.  If you can get him with the right deal, and still draft another guy in May, the line that was already improved from 2013 would be significantly better in 2015. 

Quote:Why are laughing? Over the past five seasons, JPP has 42 sacks compared to 45 1/2 for Clemons. Over the past three years, JPP has 22 sacks compared to 23 1/2 for Clemons. Quite frankly, JPP has to prove to me he's not injury prone.

02 is correct. JPP is a very close player to Clemons. If we go DE get a youngster.

Quote:02 is correct. JPP is a very close player to Clemons. If we go DE get a youngster.

So 25-26 is old?

Quote:A fourth rounder for JPP?  I would be fine with that.  The odds of them actually taking that deal?  Slim to none. 

 

If they do put the Transition Tag on him, I'd see a situation similar to what we saw with Mack last year where the Giants would let a team like the Jags negotiate a deal and then decide if they want to find a way to make that work for them.  With the available cap room the Jags have vs. the Giants, we can pretty much craft a deal that assures they won't be able to match.  If the team was serious about pursuing him, it wouldn't take much considering the Jags are currently walking around with $61 million, and the Giants have what?  $16 million to work with?

 

Now, I read the other day where the Giants are actually considering using the franchise tag on him.  If that happens, the draft compensation that would be needed to pry him from their roster would be too much.  Draft one of the studs and move on.  If you can get him with the right deal, and still draft another guy in May, the line that was already improved from 2013 would be significantly better in 2015. 

 

Do we actually know what the salary cap is going to be?   I have read that it is probably going to go up.  

Ideally, you want to keep Clemons fresh for pass rush situations and bring in a Free Agent DE that can stop the run and still be able to rush the passer.

 

I have moved on from JPP, since I no longer think he will hit the market.

 

I think the Jags should examine a less expensive option involving the signing of either

 

Adrian Clayborn of the Bucs

 

Or

 

Derrick Morgan of the Titans

 

Both are strong against the run and both have shown the capacity to deliver on average 6+ sacks per year.

 

Yet both have their down sides.

 

Adrian Clayborn has been injured two of his 4 years in the league and while healthy he was an above average DE, the only true ability that a player has is his availability to get on the field and play the game.

 

I think Clayborn would be amenable to a Prove It Contract similar to what the Jags offered Miller and Marks.

 

Derrick Morgan was injured his first two years and then had to move from down lineman DE to a standup OLB. Over the past two years other than the Jags, Bucs and Redskins the Titans have been a mess. I think Morgan is just beginning to scratch his potential.

 

So either Clayborn or Morgan would be a good signing on a short term deal so that they can prove their worth and get another opportunity to sign a big contract.

 

The Jags need to keep Clemons and have him do what he does best.

 

What is obvious to me is that if the Jags are going to dislodge the Colts from atop the division they are going to have to put pressure on the QB and it must be done in waves to keep the pressure constant.

Quote:Do we actually know what the salary cap is going to be?   I have read that it is probably going to go up.  

It probably will, but that doesn't change the dynamic.  The Jags could still put a deal together the Giants wouldn't be interested in touching.

 

That being said, I wouldn't throw together a ridiculous contract offer that would end up being out of whack with what would be considered realistic for JPP's services. 

 

In reading a few articles, JPP has made it clear he wants to stay in NY, and if the only lure to play in Jax is money, I'm not sure if we'd get the kind of return on investment we'd expect. 

It seems like JPP is definitely in the down slope of his career arch

Quote:It seems like JPP is definitely in the down slope of his career arch

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pl...ense::none

We could have had JPP but Gene Smith picked an undersized DT who no one thought should have been drafted before the 2nd round instead....

I wouldnt mind finding a cheap(as possible) way to nab JPP but at the same time I highly doubt the Giants let him slip away.

Quote:It seems like JPP is definitely in the down slope of his career arch

Yeah. 2nd highest sack total of his career. Highest number of forced fumbles in his career. Started all 16 games. He's 25 years old. Everything screams downward trajectory.

Quote:Ideally, you want to keep Clemons fresh for pass rush situations and bring in a Free Agent DE that can stop the run and still be able to rush the passer.

 

I have moved on from JPP, since I no longer think he will hit the market.

 

I think the Jags should examine a less expensive option involving the signing of either

 

Adrian Clayborn of the Bucs

 

Or

 

Derrick Morgan of the Titans

 

Both are strong against the run and both have shown the capacity to deliver on average 6+ sacks per year.

 

 

Why go after a 6+ sacks per year guy like Clayborn or Morgan when we already have a 10+ sacks per year guy in Chris Clemons on the roster?

The idea of adding another DE in Free Agency is not to REPLACE Chris Clemons, rather to AUGMENT Chris Clemons.

 

What seems clear to me is that Chris Clemons forte is rushing the passer, both Morgan and Clayborn are much stronger in rush defense.

 

Accordingly, I would prefer to develop a Dline rotation that stops the run on 1st and 2nd down, and then on 3rd and long RELEASE THE HOUNDS.

 

Either Morgan or Clayborn can provide pass rush if the opponent is passing on 1st or 2nd down.

 

Clemons does not need to get overworked and if properly supported and rested should be able to improve his pass rush numbers, especially when everyone in the stadium knows it is a passing down.

 

Neither Morgan nor Clayborn should represent big FA contracts.

 

One thing we know is that Andrew Luck can only be defeated if he is hurried and he can only be hurried if the pass rush is relentless and continuous.

 

Let's help Chris Clemons pick his spots and thus his sack and QB hurried totals by provided him some more of an upgrade during those downs he is on the sidelines resting.

In short, I like the signing of Clayborn to a short term deal. The long form of my reasoning is below:

 

As the Defensive Line rotation stands right now, the team uses two players at each spot along the Defensive Line with the exception of the LEO in that they rotate four through there. The situation isn't as cut and dry as that as we have seen the "Lightning" package where the team places three to four pure pass rushers along the Defensive Line.

 

Since the team has brought in four Free Agent players along the Defensive Line in the past two seasons, I feel like they are set in their rotation and will continue to do so moving forward with small tweaks here and there. Due to this, I think that if the team brings in a DE along the lines of Clayborn - who I view as being a 5 Tech or a 30 Front DE - then it will be a three-way competition between Clayborn, Alualu, and Bryant. Also, if the team were to bring in a Derrick Morgan / Jason Pierre-Paul type, then they will go into the rotation with Clemons, Branch, Davis and Smith.

 

Where I think things will get a little messy is if the team does take Leonard Williams because he augments the rotation at several spots but he does throw the rotation out a bit. I can't really see him taking the place of Abry Jones or Roy Miller, but I can see him rotating at the LDE as well as with Marks and Hood at the 3 Tech. But what does that mean for guys such as Hood and even Alualu? Rookie D- Linemen typically struggle, especially those that are playing on the interior.

 

It may be worthwhile for the team to sign a guy like Clayborn to a short term deal similar to the ones that Miller and Marks signed initially with the team just for the sake of helping out any rookie D-Lineman get through his first year.