Joeckel is a 2nd overall pick and hes playing like a 4th rounder. He is technically in his "rookie" year but his play has been alarmingly inconsistent. Cyprien is a 2nd round pick and he isn't making plays. Of course he isn't screwing up either which is a silver lining I suppose but this defense needs someone who can cover and pick balls/force turnovers.
Fisch.....I believe in his ability to be fresh, revolutionary, and tricky. I don't believe in his ability to call plays during a game or his gameplan in general. I want to know why Bradley, caldwell or heck even Khan hasn't sat him down and explained how beneficial it would be if Bortles was in a high-tempo, 20 yard pass offense. Fisch can do it. He did it in the pre-season with crap at WR and even with Henne.
Instead of bashing Fisch, Maybe it would be wiser to band together and make it known we want an explosive offense. It begins this offseason with FA's added to the OL and one big name to the WR corps. Fisch has shown us what he can do. Now we just gotta remind him.
Fisch/ Mallory/ Babich/ Bradley/ OL coaches/ Joeckel/ Cyp/ Gratz/ all LB not named Telvin Smith/ Gerhart/ the FS position
That pretty much covers the issues.
Technically, he isn't in his rookie year but I get what you're saying. Bass, you might be my favorite poster (along with Fantastico) on this board but this I can't get on board with. And I know it's just me, I'm in the minority, but I don't think Fisch is the problem. It's the rookies. We have about 5 contributing rookies on offense, Bortles calling timeouts after letting the play clock run down, receivers not getting separation, we don't execute the plays, and the offensive line isn't blocking well. I just think Fisch is given too much criticism
Im curious to see how Cyprien plays next year. His third year, I would expect to see a few game changing plays. We all know that Josh Evans won't be taking the field at FS barring injury next season (hopefully), and I think Cyprien will benefit greatly from having a guy he trusts back there.
To be clear, I'm on the fence with Cyp. Loved him coming out of college, and Ill wait to see how he performs next year. Get a more consistent pass rush, a few good corners, a FS, and at least 3 quality LBers; this D will be set.
Quote:Im curious to see how Cyprien plays next year. His third year, I would expect to see a few game changing plays. We all know that Josh Evans won't be taking the field at FS barring injury next season (hopefully), and I think Cyprien will benefit greatly from having a guy he trusts back there.
To be clear, I'm on the fence with Cyp. Loved him coming out of college, and Ill wait to see how he performs next year. Get a more consistent pass rush, a few good corners, a FS, and at least 3 quality LBers; this D will be set.
If a player is (or is going to be) the real deal, it shouldn't take until the 3rd year to start to see "a few game changing plays". You should expect to see those in the very first year - what you usually don't have in the first year is "consistency". By the 3rd year is when it all should come together into the finished product.
Quote:If a player is (or is going to be) the real deal, it shouldn't take until the 3rd year to start to see "a few game changing plays". You should expect to see those in the very first year - what you usually don't have in the first year is "consistency". By the 3rd year is when it all should come together into the finished product.
So false. Have you ever heard of "Sophomore Slump"? In addition how do you explain guys like Kurt Warner, Red Bryant, Sendderick Marks, Alex Smith etc.
Quote:Technically, he isn't in his rookie year but I get what you're saying. Bass, you might be my favorite poster (along with Fantastico) on this board but this I can't get on board with. And I know it's just me, I'm in the minority, but I don't think Fisch is the problem. It's the rookies. We have about 5 contributing rookies on offense, Bortles calling timeouts after letting the play clock run down, receivers not getting separation, we don't execute the plays, and the offensive line isn't blocking well. I just think Fisch is given too much criticism
This. OP, you don't think Fisch WANTS an explosive offense that scores points? You think he WANTS short yards and 3 and outs? He has to work with what he has. Of course he wants an explosive offense but this is the NFL, it's not as easy as saying, I want 20 yard plays, so I think I'll just draw those up this week and score a bunch of points. I promise he understands the dynamics of running an NFL offense much more than you.
Quote:Joeckel is a 2nd overall pick and hes playing like a 4th rounder. He is technically in his "rookie" year but his play has been alarmingly inconsistent. Cyprien is a 2nd round pick and he isn't making plays. Of course he isn't screwing up either which is a silver lining I suppose but this defense needs someone who can cover and pick balls/force turnovers.
Fisch.....I believe in his ability to be fresh, revolutionary, and tricky. I don't believe in his ability to call plays during a game or his gameplan in general. I want to know why Bradley, caldwell or heck even Khan hasn't sat him down and explained how beneficial it would be if Bortles was in a high-tempo, 20 yard pass offense. Fisch can do it. He did it in the pre-season with crap at WR and even with Henne.
Instead of bashing Fisch, Maybe it would be wiser to band together and make it known we want an explosive offense. It begins this offseason with FA's added to the OL and one big name to the WR corps. Fisch has shown us what he can do. Now we just gotta remind him.
Cyp is screwing up. He doesn't fill his gap, he is bad on angles and flat out gets beat on foot. He's also more or less a bottom of the 1st round draft pick @ 33 overall.
" I don't believe in his ability to call plays during a game or his gameplan in general" If Fisch hasn't figured it out in 2 years then he won't figure it out. Time for him to go.
Quote:Fisch/ Mallory/ Babich/ Bradley/ OL coaches/ Joeckel/ Cyp/ Gratz/ all LB not named Telvin Smith/ Gerhart/ the FS position
That pretty much covers the issues.
Yeah this. But Subtract Cyp, he aint a problem. It's everyone around him that's a problem. It the worst set of linebackers in the league and Gratz is the problem. I hate to start calling names and get banned, but god almighty there are some @^#^!!!(#*@&#^ on this board!
The front D wall is solid, the linebackers suck, the corners are below average, the free safety is below average the strong safety is above average,and with that group
the defense is not the issue the offense is.
Find a pass catching machine tight end and offensive tackle, upgrade the center of the line with a couple of vets who used to be hells angels, and we are a .500 club just that quick.
I honestly could not agree more. Fisch is to blame here. Our defense simply does not get turnovers and this is what would have changed about 2 or 3 of our losses into wins, ei Titans/Steelers/Texans. We need a bit of shaking up there.
Quote:Technically, he isn't in his rookie year but I get what you're saying. Bass, you might be my favorite poster (along with Fantastico) on this board but this I can't get on board with. And I know it's just me, I'm in the minority, but I don't think Fisch is the problem. It's the rookies. We have about 5 contributing rookies on offense, Bortles calling timeouts after letting the play clock run down, receivers not getting separation, we don't execute the plays, and the offensive line isn't blocking well. I just think Fisch is given too much criticism
Rookies are an issue and I truely hope its that simple but fisch clearly would rather die by defense suffocation (which is causing defenses to rush hard and jump routes) via short throws and runs rather than incompletions downfield. Either way, you get interceptions. Atleast the former death gives us a bit of excitement when these rookies do make plays.
I've been pretty vocal about Fisch, but the rookie thing makes me wonder as well. I just can't imagine that an Offensive Coordinator in the NFL is this inept. I think it's somewhere in between Fisch and the rookies. Some of the play calling makes me scratch my head at times but I also wonder how much the team is limited right now by the lack of experience. Quite honestly I could take Fisch or leave him. IF he stays, I hope we see major improvement from this bunch next year.
Fish has had issues with receivers dropping a lot of balls too though. Every game we have at least three or four drives that are going really well, then have a receiver drop a conversion pass when they are wide open killing the momentum. it happens every game and part of that is on the rookies, Bortles with accuracy, and the rookie receivers with drops. Even Blackmon had drops in his first year then got so much better in the four games he was back for in his second year. For Lewis and shorts who have been dropping these catchable balls I think they're just making there cases not to be brought back.
As for Cyprian, I think he is doing fine but like you guys say he can't play to his full potential because of the gaps in the secondary. I think everyone needs to remember that Kenny Vicarro, the first safety off the board in the same draft as Cyprian got benched against Chicago. So if he is out performing the highest drafted safety in the same draft I would consider him on the right track.
Quote:Fish has had issues with receivers dropping a lot of balls too though. Every game we have at least three or four drives that are going really well, then have a receiver drop a conversion pass when they are wide open killing the momentum. it happens every game and part of that is on the rookies, Bortles with accuracy, and the rookie receivers with drops. Even Blackmon had drops in his first year then got so much better in the four games he was back for in his second year. For Lewis and shorts who have been dropping these catchable balls I think they're just making there cases not to be brought back.
As for Cyprian, I think he is doing fine but like you guys say he can't play to his full potential because of the gaps in the secondary. I think everyone needs to remember that Kenny Vicarro, the first safety off the board in the same draft as Cyprian got benched against Chicago. So if he is out performing the highest drafted safety in the same draft I would consider him on the right track.
Yeah, I'm not worried about Cyprien right now. He needs more talent around him. I think with a few additions he'll be fine. It's just a tall order right now to expect him to pick up the slack. The drops are frustrating too, especially from Lewis and Shorts. They've been around enough to have worked that out of their games. Drops are going to happen to even the best receivers every once in a while, but for crying out loud it's beyond ridiculous with those two.
I've been more and more alarmed by offensive playcalling but I can understand that Fisch is handcuffed by the inexperience on this team. My main concern is Joeckel. Guy needs to get it together.
I understand the team is young and I never expected much at all this season with all the young players but when I watch what Fisch calls more so than not it makes me go Whaaa?!? So I still blame him so most everything at this point besides the rookies playing young and players dropping balls all over.
Joeckle needs to hit the Gym hard this offseason and gain more strength. He got manhandled all year. Cyprien sucks. I'm ready to find his replacement.
Quote:Joeckel is a 2nd overall pick and hes playing like a 4th rounder. He is technically in his "rookie" year but his play has been alarmingly inconsistent. Cyprien is a 2nd round pick and he isn't making plays. Of course he isn't screwing up either which is a silver lining I suppose but this defense needs someone who can cover and pick balls/force turnovers.
Fisch.....I believe in his ability to be fresh, revolutionary, and tricky. I don't believe in his ability to call plays during a game or his gameplan in general. I want to know why Bradley, caldwell or heck even Khan hasn't sat him down and explained how beneficial it would be if Bortles was in a high-tempo, 20 yard pass offense. Fisch can do it. He did it in the pre-season with crap at WR and even with Henne.
Instead of bashing Fisch, Maybe it would be wiser to band together and make it known we want an explosive offense. It begins this offseason with FA's added to the OL and one big name to the WR corps. Fisch has shown us what he can do. Now we just gotta remind him.
I guess you haven't watched this season. No way you can say that with a straight face.
Quote:Yeah this. But Subtract Cyp, he aint a problem. It's everyone around him that's a problem. It the worst set of linebackers in the league and Gratz is the problem. I hate to start calling names and get banned, but god almighty there are some @^#^!!!(#*@&#^ on this board!
The front D wall is solid, the linebackers suck, the corners are below average, the free safety is below average the strong safety is above average,and with that group the defense is not the issue the offense is.
Find a pass catching machine tight end and offensive tackle, upgrade the center of the line with a couple of vets who used to be hells angels, and we are a .500 club just that quick.
You haven't been watching either. Ever since Poz went out these boys been flying around making plays. The only one that sucks is 55 and if we replace him this front 7 is legit. A free safety, dominate pass rusher, and another outside linebacker and this defense is trouble. We really need a strong safety but Caldwell's pride won't let him cut or replace Cyprien just yet.
The OL and LB units are by far the weakest links on the team. Once these are addressed, we need to focus on getting a FS, receiving TE, and an edgerusher.
Our OL cannot passblock or runblock. They lack athleticism and strength, not sure they're capable of doing anything well.
Outside Telvin and Poz, LBs have been a nonfactor against both stopping the pass and the rush. DL & DBs have to make all the plays while the LBs twiddle their thumbs.
To play cover 3 we need a good FS, Evans is not the answer.
To move the chains and help our young QB, we need a TE that can catch. Lewis has the frame but continues to showcase his unreliable hands. Marks has been our MVP this season. He's consistently generated pressure and proved to hold up against the rush. The DL is by far our strongest unit, but to take it to the next level, achieve more depth and force turnovers we need to attack the blindside. Insert Randy Gregory. He's got the skillset, instincts, athleticism, and motor to become the edgerusher we've been missing forever
Caldwell has some work to do and money to spend. As far as coaching, Mallory is done for and Fisch will be next if he doesn't figure things out
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