Quote:There's no way of knowing right now what, if any changes will happen with the OL. Everything depends on what options are presented to the team that would represent upgrades at any of the 5 positions. I suspect that they'll more than likely pursue at least a right tackle in free agency because that hamstring injury Pasztor suffered isn't something that is an easy one to recover 100% from. They're going to need to have insurance in case he isn't able to return, and if he is, a little competition for the starting role never hurts.
I agree with this. Someone to battle Pasztor at RT is seemingly inevitable.
Also - I'd add that the need for quality depth and the available cap space
could mean that LG and C see some competition as well. Even if it isn't "fierce" competition.
I'd like to see the back-ups representing a much higher level of play than the McClendons and Rackleys we've seen for too long.
(I'm aware Rackley is gone - but he illustrates my point.)
Quote:That's the thing that seems to be forgotten.
plus he wasnt going to sign a new contract in jax anyway. whether people think the value was too little or not. it certainly was better than nothing.
I really hope our line does grow together but I do hope we bring in multiple players to compete and be depth on the OLine.
Quote:I'm sure you did nothing other than pull that from your nether region, but 18-22 year old kids aren't as strong as their later 20s selves after they've grown into men.
I agree with this and it's why I still have hope for Joeckel. He's a baby-faced kid. I think he'll be able to get much stronger.
Different people (even pro athletes) have different clocks for their stages of development. Look at Blake Bortles. Dude looks like he's 30. Luke looks like he's 19 - but they were born 5 weeks apart.
The ability to add and retain muscle mass in young men is genetically pre-disposed. As is the calendar by which it happens. Sometimes (as a young man) you hit a "wall" in the gym and your body decides when you're ready to move forward.
In my family it seems to be around 23-25 years for the men when our metabolism changes. (ability to gain muscle weight and retain it)
I was in the best shape of my life from 28-33 years old.
At 22 I couldn't gain weight despite every effort to do so.
Obviously Luke was genetically gifted with size, but his metabolism (and injury) have held him back in terms of getting to the next level strength-wise. At his age - two years can mean drastic changes. Just my opinion. I'm sure a few of you will think it's stupid, but that's what I see going on with Luke.
![[Image: 2i9pn4.jpg]](http://oi58.tinypic.com/2i9pn4.jpg)
Quote:plus he wasnt going to sign a new contract in jax anyway. whether people think the value was too little or not. it certainly was better than nothing.
You're not going to convince anyone of that here. They drafted Joeckel to play LT. He wasn't going to be kept at RT. If they'd kept Monroe around, they'd be negotiating a contract commensurate with what a starting right tackle would receive and that's significantly less than what LTs get paid. Monroe wasn't going to take a cut, so unless they planned to use a franchise tag on him, there wasn't much of a chance he was coming back under a new contract. He expected to get paid.
I think 2 of the top 20 highest paid tackles in the league are RTs, and they're both near the bottom of that list, making less than what Monroe is getting paid by Baltimore. The Jags weren't going to buck that trend to keep him around, and they managed to get real value from the draft pick they got in the trade. Win for the Jags, IMO.
Quote:You're not going to convince anyone of that here. They drafted Joeckel to play LT. He wasn't going to be kept at RT. If they'd kept Monroe around, they'd be negotiating a contract commensurate with what a starting right tackle would receive and that's significantly less than what LTs get paid. Monroe wasn't going to take a cut, so unless they planned to use a franchise tag on him, there wasn't much of a chance he was coming back under a new contract. He expected to get paid.
I think 2 of the top 20 highest paid tackles in the league are RTs, and they're both near the bottom of that list, making less than what Monroe is getting paid by Baltimore. The Jags weren't going to buck that trend to keep him around, and they managed to get real value from the draft pick they got in the trade. Win for the Jags, IMO.
If they had no plans of keeping Monroe, why didn't they trade him during that draft?
Quote:If they had no plans of keeping Monroe, why didn't they trade him during that draft?
How do we know they didn't try?
Quote:How do we know they didn't try?
we don't, but if we did, the word would have gotten out to the Schefters of the world
Eugene makes nearly the same as Beadles.
The Ravens are $5m under the cap even with the Flacco Contract.
The Jags are $27m under the cap.
The Franchise tag for OL is ~ $11m
We got Chris Smith DE w/ the Ravens pick.
I'll leave it up to you to evaluate the transaction.
If hypothetically stating "Monroe wasn't going to stay in Jacksonville" makes you feel better about getting something in return then that's fine. I personally believe Monroe would have stayed in Jax if we presented a comparable offer. After all, the existing team usually carries more weight AND we have Dave & Gus leading the sales pitch for the future. No way he'd resist being part of the forthcoming super bowl movement !! We could have kept him for the equivalent that the Ravens paid. Is he worth it?? Not sure. Do you have to overpay to get good? in some cases Yes in other cases NO. It is what it is. At this point, if I keep getting my Teal Deal books on an annual basis, I'm pretty content.
Quote:If they had no plans of keeping Monroe, why didn't they trade him during that draft?
How do you know they didn't try to do exactly that once they'd selected Joeckel?
Quote:How do you know they didn't try to do exactly that once they'd selected Joeckel?
it's unlikely they kept Monroe around as long as they did without considering keeping him long term
had they shopped him, word would have gotten out
Quote:word would have gotten out
Blind assumption. You have no clue how often these types of things do or do not leak to the press.
Quote:Blind assumption. You have no clue how often these types of things do or do not leak to the press.
it's UNLIKELY that they shopped him during that draft and word didn't get out
I have no clue... and neither do you. we're just guessing here, but if they had no plans of keeping Monroe, then they probably could have traded him sooner than later
Quote:Eugene makes nearly the same as Beadles.
The Ravens are $5m under the cap even with the Flacco Contract.
The Jags are $27m under the cap.
The Franchise tag for OL is ~ $11m
We got Chris Smith DE w/ the Ravens pick.
I'll leave it up to you to evaluate the transaction.
If hypothetically stating "Monroe wasn't going to stay in Jacksonville" makes you feel better about getting something in return then that's fine. I personally believe Monroe would have stayed in Jax if we presented a comparable offer. After all, the existing team usually carries more weight AND we have Dave & Gus leading the sales pitch for the future. No way he'd resist being part of the forthcoming super bowl movement !! We could have kept him for the equivalent that the Ravens paid. Is he worth it?? Not sure. Do you have to overpay to get good? in some cases Yes in other cases NO. It is what it is. At this point, if I keep getting my Teal Deal books on an annual basis, I'm pretty content.
Monroe and Beadles aren't making nearly the same thing.
Monroe's average salary is $7.5 million yearly vs. $6 million for Beadles.
Monroe also got $17.5 million in guaranteed money vs. $12 million for Beadles.
Monroe wasn't going to take a pay cut. He saw the writing on the wall and knew his time in Jax was winding down. He also knew that a starting LT in free agency who is anything better than average is going to get a serious payday. That payday would be significantly less if he was a starting RT extending his deal here.
The funny thing about all this discussion about the horrific loss of Monroe is that most people here wanted him gone because they didn't see him as being terribly effective....until the team actually moved on and traded him. Even then, it took Joeckel going on the IR for the majority who have complained about this trade to start this mantra.
The discussions we're seeing right now in year 2 of Joeckel are almost identical to what we were seeing with Monroe in his 2nd year.
If Chris Smith continues to progress and have an impact, that trade looks pretty good.
Quote:it's unlikely they kept Monroe around as long as they did without considering keeping him long term
had they shopped him, word would have gotten out
Not necessarily. There are a lot of discussions that happen, especially during the draft, that we'll never hear about, especially since the media couldn't care less about the Jaguars to begin with.
Quote:it's UNLIKELY that they shopped him during that draft and word didn't get out
Teams are cooking up all sorts of trade options during the draft that nobody ever hears the details about.
Quote:http://espn.go.com/blog/jacksonville-jag...-rough-day
Dec 1st ESPN on Jags Oline after the Giants game ....
______________________________________
It wont let me use certain image extensions for photos not sure why https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/image...S1FnpLR7Mq
Four of those 7 were not on the OL. Two specifically were on Denard not picking up his man, another was on a bootleg, and another one was Blake holding onto the ball for too long after Marcedes chipped the DE the ran a route into the flat.
Again, less than half on the oline.
Quote:I agree with this and it's why I still have hope for Joeckel. He's a baby-faced kid. I think he'll be able to get much stronger.
Different people (even pro athletes) have different clocks for their stages of development. Look at Blake Bortles. Dude looks like he's 30. Luke looks like he's 19 - but they were born 5 weeks apart.
The ability to add and retain muscle mass in young men is genetically pre-disposed. As is the calendar by which it happens. Sometimes (as a young man) you hit a "wall" in the gym and your body decides when you're ready to move forward.
In my family it seems to be around 23-25 years for the men when our metabolism changes. (ability to gain muscle weight and retain it)
I was in the best shape of my life from 28-33 years old.
At 22 I couldn't gain weight despite every effort to do so.
Obviously Luke was genetically gifted with size, but his metabolism (and injury) have held him back in terms of getting to the next level strength-wise. At his age - two years can mean drastic changes. Just my opinion. I'm sure a few of you will think it's stupid, but that's what I see going on with Luke.
I'm with you NYC. Anyone who played sports as a kid/young man should know everyone grows differently well into their mid-20's, I was on the opposite end of the spectrum from you. Everyone is different.
And regardless of all that, it's pretty clear that Joeckel's frame can support some more lean muscle.
Quote:The discussions we're seeing right now in year 2 of Joeckel are almost identical to what we were seeing with Monroe in his 2nd year.
And therein lies the problem...so far right now, it looks like we got rid of Monroe to draft his replacement...including the growing pains of what we already went through with Eugene. If Luke is actually playing well and stonewalling that left side, then people would be more forgiving of Eugene being traded.
Quote:Eugene makes nearly the same as Beadles.
The Ravens are $5m under the cap even with the Flacco Contract.
The Jags are $27m under the cap.
The Franchise tag for OL is ~ $11m
We got Chris Smith DE w/ the Ravens pick.
I'll leave it up to you to evaluate the transaction.
If hypothetically stating "Monroe wasn't going to stay in Jacksonville" makes you feel better about getting something in return then that's fine. I personally believe Monroe would have stayed in Jax if we presented a comparable offer. After all, the existing team usually carries more weight AND we have Dave & Gus leading the sales pitch for the future. No way he'd resist being part of the forthcoming super bowl movement !! We could have kept him for the equivalent that the Ravens paid. Is he worth it?? Not sure. Do you have to overpay to get good? in some cases Yes in other cases NO. It is what it is. At this point, if I keep getting my Teal Deal books on an annual basis, I'm pretty content.
we also got colvin from that trade....