Quote:Which gets back to a problem someone brought up in another thread.
There is way too much short passing to the sidelines in this offense. Not nearly enough short passing over the middle of the field.
It's not clear to me if it's the playcalling that's the problem, or players recognizing what they need to do, but it's something that should be fixed.
I think this is a result of keeping the RB and/or TE in to help pass protect more often than not. Aren't those short passes over the middle usually TE/RB type throws?
Quote:I think this is a result of keeping the RB and/or TE in to help pass protect more often than not. Aren't those short passes over the middle usually TE/RB type throws?
Not necessarily.
Slants and crossing patterns go to the middle, too. And they've worked well when they're thrown for this team. Marquis Lee against the colts was a slant. Hurns TD against the colts in the first game was another slant.
Quote:Not necessarily.
Slants and crossing patterns go to the middle, too. And they've worked well when they're thrown for this team. Marquis Lee against the colts was a slant. Hurns TD against the colts in the first game was another slant
Lol I hear you but we can't throw slants all game. Guys have to step up and start making plays in other scenarios.
Quote:Lol I hear you but we can't throw slants all game. Guys have to step up and start making plays in other scenarios.
Of course you can't, but you have to throw the ball somewhere whenever you pass it.
Here is the post that shows the relevant numbers.
http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/top.../?p=387387
A good example is that on first down when the Jaguars pass the ball they've thrown to the right or left side 144 times and thrown over the middle 18 times.
That's a pretty crazy ratio. I somehow doubt teams we play haven't noticed this.
Bortles issues can be traced to coaching/ the offensive coordinator.
When Bortles first started playing he actually looked night and day better than he looks now by week 14.
The more that he's been under the influence of Fisch, the worse and more importantly, the less effective he's gotten.
I also don't see how Fisch's offense is a good match for Bortles' big arm. Fisch wants to run a lot of short passes, slants and screens. None of those are what Bortles does best.
The type of offense Turner runs is philosophically a much better fit for the skill set of Bortles.
Its not an accident that the more that time goes on Bortles looks more like Henne with every start. And some of the posts here that I read actually want this to continue next year (giving Fisch another year to cement his influence on Bortles)? That doesn't sound like a very smart plan to me.
Any growing pains with a new OC would be offset and short lived by salvage of Bortles as long as a better match to Bortles' strengths is inserted at OC.
Quote:Bortles issues can be traced to coaching/ the offensive coordinator.
When Bortles first started playing he actually looked night and day better than he looks now by week 14.
The more that he's been under the influence of Fisch, the worse and more importantly, the less effective he's gotten.
And this is a trend that has shown for all three of the starting QBs we've seen under Fisch.
As Gabbert went on under Fisch he appeared to get worse and worse.
Henne was never good, but he was almost NFL quality at some points in his career. This season he was absolutely terrible.
Bortles seems to have regressed as a passer a lot, too.
Quote:
I'll just leave this here, from Football Outsiders.
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#BecauseJaguars
Quote:Of course you can't, but you have to throw the ball somewhere whenever you pass it.
Here is the post that shows the relevant numbers.
http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/top.../?p=387387
A good example is that on first down when the Jaguars pass the ball they've thrown to the right or left side 144 times and thrown over the middle 18 times.
That's a pretty crazy ratio. I somehow doubt teams we play haven't noticed this.
That is crazy. Over the middle throws are typically TE and RB throws though. Ours seem either to stay back and block or just terrible players. I'm not sure we want to constantly run our wide-outs across the middle. There are still hitters in the league. The wideuts have to win outside the numbers and we need TE's who can catch across the middle. Harbor dropped a 30 yarder across the middle. Those are simple plays that are not completed.
I'm sure teams see all the analytic analysis of our games but the guys on the field are just not making it happen. Breaking numbers down is okay but watching shows the true story. There is no consistent over the middle threat. No TE to make 8-9 catches a game.
Not sure it's that complicated?? The main issue is his footwork. When he is being rushed in the pocket, he's going to rush the pass hence throwing balls low or inaccurrate. It's also going to cause him to not put as much thought into his mecanics/footwork.
An off-season of working on his footwork as well as the O-line hopefully being improved, will result in improved QB play next season...again.....hopefully.
My advice would be to quit listening to your coaches. Be yourself. Use the entire field. Don't worry about picks because we're going to lose anyway.
We sure know how to run a QB into the ground here in Jacksonville.
Bortles has been trash this year, but that first half against the Texans was the best I've seen him play this year. That was the Bortles I saw playing at UCF for two years. Looks like he figured something out in the game but that second half was a collaspe so I don't know what to think. At least I know he's capable of being good he just need more weapons and heavy protection. Bortles knows how to win and work a pocket the team just sucks around him.
Good job Caldwell. He targeted Bortles when he got the job or at least a few months after and still didn't get the adequate pieces to aid a rookie qb. He tried but the pieces he did bring in here has failed him. Whether it is giving him rookies to throw to when he's a rookie himself or the free agent lineman and street players who or below average protecting. A seemingly bust of a top pick tackle and no tight end worth a damn to give him a reliable big target to throw to. One thing I know is Bortles isn't soft and will break mentally like that punk Gabbert did so he'll be able to handle the failure until they get the right players.
Quote:Bortles has been trash this year, but that first half against the Texans was the best I've seen him play this year. That was the Bortles I saw playing at UCF for two years. Looks like he figured something out in the game but that second half was a collaspe so I don't know what to think. At least I know he's capable of being good he just need more weapons and heavy protection. Bortles knows how to win and work a pocket the team just sucks around him.
Good job Caldwell. He targeted Bortles when he got the job or at least a few months after and still didn't get the adequate pieces to aid a rookie qb. He tried but the pieces he did bring in here has failed him. Whether it is giving him rookies to throw to when he's a rookie himself or the free agent lineman and street players who or below average protecting. A seemingly bust of a top pick tackle and no tight end worth a damn to give him a reliable big target to throw to. One thing I know is Bortles isn't soft and will break mentally like that punk Gabbert did so he'll be able to handle the failure until they get the right players.
Wow. So Caldwell was supposed to bring in every piece necessary to fill in around Bortles...in one season? Especially considering..you know...he wasn't supposed to be playing yet.
Yep...that's some realistic expectations right there folks.
Quote:Bortles has been trash this year, but that first half against the Texans was the best I've seen him play this year. That was the Bortles I saw playing at UCF for two years. Looks like he figured something out in the game but that second half was a collaspe so I don't know what to think. At least I know he's capable of being good he just need more weapons and heavy protection. Bortles knows how to win and work a pocket the team just sucks around him.
Good job Caldwell. He targeted Bortles when he got the job or at least a few months after and still didn't get the adequate pieces to aid a rookie qb. He tried but the pieces he did bring in here has failed him. Whether it is giving him rookies to throw to when he's a rookie himself or the free agent lineman and street players who or below average protecting. A seemingly bust of a top pick tackle and no tight end worth a damn to give him a reliable big target to throw to. One thing I know is Bortles isn't soft and will break mentally like that punk Gabbert did so he'll be able to handle the failure until they get the right players.
![[Image: conup.gif]](http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/10/conup.gif)
Quote:I just want to ask jag fans a honest question about Blake not trolling. What concerns you more going forward his decision making or his mechanics?
I think this kid has plenty of talent but is staring down WR and throwing into triple coverage something that can be taught? Remember when Gabbert was
here people said( most correct) that you can't teak pocket awareness, however can you teach mechanics and decision making? I remember when Leftwich
was here no matter who worked with him he still had the windup delivery which never changed.
For sure mechanics is something that can be taught and learned... but it requires both the effort and desire to do so. I'm not so sure if Byron had much of either. Decision making is more a byproduct of understanding the game and maturity gained under 'controlled pressure'. No one develops good decision making when their constantly running for their life! We'll be fortunate if Bortles doesn't develop some really bad habits (chuck 'n tuck...) as a result of such poor pass protection.
So the answer to both questions is yes, mechanics and decision making can be taught or developed. What can't be taught is mental toughness or to put it another way... 'heart', or 'guts'. A quarterback can sometimes do amazing things even if he's lacking great ball skills but has bucket loads of heart. Nevertheless... mental toughness can still be turned into fear if a quarterback is allowed to constantly suffer the consequences of poor pass protection.... especially young quarterbacks.
Quote:Wow. So Caldwell was supposed to bring in every piece necessary to fill in around Bortles...in one season? Especially considering..you know...he wasn't supposed to be playing yet.
Yep...that's some realistic expectations right there folks.
Yeah he was. You think they thought Henne was gonna survive a whole year without being yanked? Stay off the crack.
Quote:Sadly I did not copy and paste... I typed it up... help me get a life.
LOL. You need to get out of the house more.
As an example: you said Fisch's job is in jeopardy. According to what source? Based on this message board only. You do need to get outside.
Mechanics. His footwork has to improve. To make the next step forward he has to use his feet...
Quote:Mechanics. His footwork has to improve. To make the next step forward he has to use his feet...
I'm gonna have to disagree. I think I'd rather BB5 play smart football instead of technically sound football. I don't think mechanics can't cover up for making boneheaded decisions. However I do think being smart with the football can overcome dicey mechanics. Ideally, we want both improved, no doubt. But I say start with the mind, then work on the body.
Who cares if Bortles looks like Dan Marino in the pocket if he's repeatedly throwing into triple coverage?