Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Good point Adam, but to be fair, Brady didn't have to carry his team until about 5 years into his career or so.

 

And I find it a bit telling that once Brady had to "carry" his team, they stopped winning Super Bowls. Brady won three rings in his first four years, but hasn't won one since. Now that isn't all on him, I'm just trying to point out that even a great Quarterback with prolific season numbers still needs help to win a Super Bowl.

There is a dramatic difference between the situations of Wilson compared to Luck.

 

If you are an opposing defense playing against Seattle, where do you place a majority of your focus? It starts with trying to stop Marshawn Lynch, and then containing RW in the pocket so he doesn't beat you with his running ability. Then, you worry about Seattle's pass game. If Seattle was a pass-first offense, teams would greatly change their game plan and this would inevitably lead to more turnovers from RW, lowering his QB rating, etc... 

 

If you are an opposing defense playing against the Colts? You place your focus on getting to Luck and trying to stop their pass game. Their run game is virtually non-existent. If you can stop Luck, you can beat the Colts. 

 

How does their defenses compare to one another? Seattle is ranked among the top in the league while the Colts are ranked #23. 

 

Luck and the Colts have the league's #1 offense. He leads the league in TDs and passing yards and we're talking about Wilson as the best young QB? 

Quote:There is a dramatic difference between the situations of Wilson compared to Luck.


If you are an opposing defense playing against Seattle, where do you place a majority of your focus? It starts with trying to stop Marshawn Lynch, and then containing RW in the pocket so he doesn't beat you with his running ability. Then, you worry about Seattle's pass game. If Seattle was a pass-first offense, teams would greatly change their game plan and this would inevitably lead to more turnovers from RW, lowering his QB rating, etc...


If you are an opposing defense playing against the Colts? You place your focus on getting to Luck and trying to stop their pass game. Their run game is virtually non-existent. If you can stop Luck, you can beat the Colts.


How does their defenses compare to one another? Seattle is ranked among the top in the league while the Colts are ranked #23.


Luck and the Colts have the league's #1 offense. He leads the league in TDs and passing yards and we're talking about Wilson as the best young QB?

Russell Wilson would have better numbers on the Colts than Luck. Seahawks would lose more games with Luck. Luck is a mixed bag whereas Wilson is consistently great. Luck also has better weapons than Wilson. Who is Doug Baldwin or Jermaine Kearse? Colts are loaded with receivers yet he continues to make boneheaded butt-fumble'esque plays. Everybody wants to crown Luck, but where's your crown King Nothing? Playing in the weakest division whereas Wilson the strongest

I don't remember Gabbert outgunning Wilson. Please refresh my memory

Quote:Russell Wilson would have better numbers on the Colts than Luck. Seahawks would lose more games with Luck. Luck is a mixed bag whereas Wilson is consistently great. Luck also has better weapons than Wilson. Who is Doug Baldwin or Jermaine Kearse? Colts are loaded with receivers yet he continues to make boneheaded butt-fumble'esque plays. Everybody wants to crown Luck, but where's your crown King Nothing? Playing in the weakest division whereas Wilson the strongest

RW wouldn't have better numbers on the Colts because he's not a better passer. Luck would easily win more games with Seattle and I don't even think that's much of a discussion. Luck has taken a team with a horrible O-line, no run game, and a bottom third defense to the playoffs every season. He also did this last year with Griff Whalen, Lavonn Brazille, and Da'Rick Rogers as his primary receivers (also with Dwayne Allen out or IR).  He's proven he can win with less at the receiver position. Now that he has a better receiving coprs, he leads the league in TDs and passing yards. This is hard to argue against.

 

Again, opposing defenses throw everything at Luck because he's the key to beating the Colts. That's not always the case with RW. RW has it much easier.

Quote:There is a dramatic difference between the situations of Wilson compared to Luck.


If you are an opposing defense playing against Seattle, where do you place a majority of your focus? It starts with trying to stop Marshawn Lynch, and then containing RW in the pocket so he doesn't beat you with his running ability. Then, you worry about Seattle's pass game. If Seattle was a pass-first offense, teams would greatly change their game plan and this would inevitably lead to more turnovers from RW, lowering his QB rating, etc...


If you are an opposing defense playing against the Colts? You place your focus on getting to Luck and trying to stop their pass game. Their run game is virtually non-existent. If you can stop Luck, you can beat the Colts.


How does their defenses compare to one another? Seattle is ranked among the top in the league while the Colts are ranked #23.


Luck and the Colts have the league's #1 offense. He leads the league in TDs and passing yards and we're talking about Wilson as the best young QB?

Yeah, we are. We aren't the only ones to suggest it either. Plenty of players have gone on record this year saying that RW is better than luck.

Quote:RW wouldn't have better numbers on the Colts because he's not a better passer. Luck would easily win more games with Seattle and I don't even think that's much of a discussion. Luck has taken a team with a horrible O-line, no run game, and a bottom third defense to the playoffs every season. He also did this last year with Griff Whalen, Lavonn Brazille, and Da'Rick Rogers as his primary receivers (also with Dwayne Allen out or IR). He's proven he can win with less at the receiver position. Now that he has a better receiving coprs, he leads the league in TDs and passing yards. This is hard to argue against.


Again, opposing defenses throw everything at Luck because he's the key to beating the Colts. That's not always the case with RW. RW has it much easier.

Rw is a significantly better passer than luck. Arm strength is probably equal but Wilson throws a better ball, he's way more accurate as well. Deadly accuracy while on the move.


Rw is under appreciated

Quote:Yeah, we are. We aren't the only ones to suggest it either. Plenty of players have gone on record this year saying that RW is better than luck.

Plenty of coaches and GMs have said otherwise. Everyone can have their opinion, and that's alright by me.

When comparing two qbs, the defense each of them plays with is not a barometer of their individual abilities. Luck has more receiving talent than Wilson period.Wilson also plays in a harder division than Luck. Yeah luck goes to the playoff but that's because no other team can properly compete with them in the division. Luck is a talented qb no doubt but I feel this will turn into the Brady or Manning debate in the future. I take Brady because of the wins and he come through in the clutch. Luck has a 1-2 play off record and Wilson is 4-1 in less time.

 

Wilson is also 6-0 against Brady, Brees, Manning and Rodgers. Also has the most wins of any qb since his time entering the league. That tells me all I need to know.

 

Luck is a top qb. But let's not poo on the idea that Wilson is better. It is a strong argument for it.    

Quote:When comparing two qbs, the defense each of them plays with is not a barometer of their individual abilities. Luck has more receiving talent than Wilson period.Wilson also plays in a harder division than Luck. Yeah luck goes to the playoff but that's because no other team can properly compete with them in the division. Luck is a talented qb no doubt but I feel this will turn into the Brady or Manning debate in the future. I take Brady because of the wins and he come through in the clutch. Luck has a 1-2 play off record and Wilson is 4-1 in less time.


Wilson is also 6-0 against Brady, Brees, Manning and Rodgers. Also has the most wins of any qb since his time entering the league. That tells me all I need to know.


Luck is a top qb. But let's not poo on the idea that Wilson is better. It is a strong argument for it.

In an effort to address some of the points that you have made:


1. The defenses that each of them plays with is not a barometer of their individual abilities. This I agree with to an extent. It is not a barometer of their abilities, but it does affect how they are asked to play. Seattle's defense is MUCH better than the Colts defense. I think that we can all agree on that, correct? This translates to the team with the lesser defense to consistently score more points in order to win.


2. Luck does have a better receiving corps than Wilson. No disagreement here. However, when Reggie Wayne was lost for the season and Dwayne Allen was placed on IR last year, Luck's primary targets were T.Y., Griff Whalen, Lavon Brazill, and Da'Rick Rogers. Luck was still effective and I have no doubt that he would be effective in Seattle's passing attack, especially knowing that Luck and Baldwin were college team mates and had success together then. On the other hand, RW has a better running game, period.


3. Using the division as an excuse for why Luck has gone to the playoffs -- The Colts were never like this year's Falcons or the Seahawks of a few year's past. They weren't some losing team that happened to make the playoffs due to just winning their division. Along the way, they have beaten teams like the Broncos, Seahawks, Niners, Packers, etc... They have beaten plenty of good teams to make this excuse moot. Also, the Texans were 12-4 in 2012 and are a winning team again this year. Just like any conference, you will have good teams and bad teams and the AFC South unfortunately has 2 really bad teams.


4. Saying that Wilson won against Brady, Brees, Manning, and Rogers is akin to saying that the dominant Seahawks won against the Patriots, Saints, Broncos, and Packers. That's not as impressive as saying that Luck and the Colts, a far inferior team talent wise, won against the Niners, Broncos, Packers, and the Seahawks. Just looking at the SuperBowl game vs the Broncos, Wilson had thrown for less than 100 yards and his team was up (31-3?) in the third quarter, I believe. It's clear to see that the Seahawks can win with RW merely managing the game. Luck has to throw the ball 40+ times for the Colts to have a chance.


I think RW is a good quarterback and I am not arguing against that. He is very good!!!! It's my opinion; however, that Luck is better.

Quote:But Luck and Brady, and earlier in his career, Rodgers, have had to carry their team. To a large, large, extent they are the main reason why their teams are winners. Wilson will at some point have to carry his team - that defense can't stay together forever, and then we'll get a better idea as to his full worth. I think he'll be fine.

Yes, Luck does carries the Colts. And I do think Luck may be a little better, but not at the margin the media is making it out to be. If Luck plays for Seattle, his numbers wouldnt be any better than what Wilson put up right now.


Brady didn't carry the Patriots in his early days. I'm not sure where you get that. If he did, his numbers would be like those of Manning. One thing about young Brady was that he was clutch and spectacular when the Patriots needed him to. (Sounds familiar?)

Quote:If the Jaguars drafted WIlson, we would be in the playoff hunt.

 

LOL! Sure.

Quote:Good point Adam, but to be fair, Brady didn't have to carry his team until about 5 years into his career or so.

 

True, but the Football Gods made up for it by giving him some of the most anonymous offensive players in the past five years.

 

And yet, the Patriots keep cranking out 10, 11, 12 win seasons every year. Because of Tom Brady primarily (and Gronk, when healthy).

Quote:And I find it a bit telling that once Brady had to "carry" his team, they stopped winning Super Bowls. Brady won three rings in his first four years, but hasn't won one since. Now that isn't all on him, I'm just trying to point out that even a great Quarterback with prolific season numbers still needs help to win a Super Bowl.

 

Correct. They need a defense. See Russell Wilson.

 

But to continue to win 10 - 12 games every year, with people coming and going, injured or healthy, is remarkable.