This was the first article I read and here are excerpts;
"It is quite apparent that Obama is disarming
<a class="" href='http://www.examiner.com/topic/border'>border</a><span> <a class="" href='http://www.examiner.com/topic/patrol'>patrol</a><span> <a class="" href='http://www.examiner.com/topic/agents'>agents</a> in advance of his forthcoming executive order that will provide amnesty to
illegal immigrants. Approximately half of the United States Customs and Border Patrol's M4 carbine <a class="" href='http://www.examiner.com/topic/weapons'>weapons</a> have been taken away by the <a class="" href='http://www.examiner.com/topic/federal'>federal</a> government, supposedly because the weapons posed safety concerns for border agents. Some people do not buy this explanation, such as Representative Steve King (R-Iowa.)</span></span>
Congressman King said with a laugh: “There’s no more reliable weapon in the world,” and that “Any agency like the Department of Homeland Security that has bought millions of rounds of ammunition over the past few years could certainly afford to
replace <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);">with new serviceable M4s all the weapons they are [taking] for testing. This sounds to me like a ruse to start to take the weapons out of the hands of the Border Patrol.” King stated that "the M4, M16 and AR15 have interchangeable parts and feature identical action," and “If there were any problem with them as far as safety was concerned, it would be all over the Internet.”"</span>
I wasn't too sure about this as it wasn't all over the news so I did some digging and this investigative report out of Tucson confirms the weapons are being taken away, not replaced, and agents are having to share resources.
So what is the opinion of this board?
I guess it's a good thing he's arming the IRS, HHS, and a host of other government agencies that have no business being armed.
It's clear why they're disarming the border agents. Obama is rolling out the red carpet. Of course, he's not taking into consideration the cartels and other nefarious groups that are eager to cross the border to do their misdeeds in the US will appreciate the lack of resistance.
Quote:I guess it's a good thing he's arming the IRS, HHS, and a host of other government agencies that have no business being armed.
It's clear why they're disarming the border agents. Obama is rolling out the red carpet. Of course, he's not taking into consideration the cartels and other nefarious groups that are eager to cross the border to do their misdeeds in the US will appreciate the lack of resistance.
This was one of the first things that came to mind when I read the article. Not every illegal immigrant is a young mom with a couple of kids just looking for a better life. There are folks who would love to come over here and rain down some hate and discontent.
While I do not agree with this amnesty crap Obama is pushing, especially on such a large scale, I agree that families shouldn't be separated. If they hadn't come here in the first place then they wouldn't have to worry about it. I can't imagine a life of looking over my shoulder wondering if/when I'm going to get caught. Of course, that may be the life they left behind and if they have to live that way then here is a better place to do it.
I'm not saying it's right, but I can understand the mindset.
Slow down, everyone. Just slow down.
From reading Fox News, it isn't Obama that's doing this, it's the Border Patrol itself that is doing this.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/12/bor...in-danger/
"Border Patrol officials have pulled thousands of rifles from field agents in a large-scale effort to refurbish the weaponry, prompting the rank-and-file to complain that they've been left with the dangerous options of sharing guns or being disarmed altogether.
Nearly one-third of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection's 16,300 M4 carbine rifles were tested by the agency's office of training and development, which determined that more than 2,000 had the potential for malfunction. The rate of nearly 40 percent was "more than we are comfortable with,” said CBP Deputy Chief Ron Vitiello."
""Our top priority is to make sure our agents are safe,” said Vitiello, adding that the agency intends to eventually cycle through all of the rifles to ensure that those in need of repair are fixed. “They will be like new when they are refurbished.”"
Now, reasonable people can discuss whether this is a good idea or not, but let's not get all paranoid about it.
I'd be curious to know what the issue is with them, M4's are easily disassembled and replacement parts can be fixed in minutes, not even hours. So what would be wrong with them that would require taking them in for repair for longer then a few hours?
Carbines are one of the most reliable and accurate weapons there are
Illegal immigration will be a problem, until we give them no incentive to come here illegally.
Quote:Illegal immigration will be a problem, until we give them no incentive to come here illegally.
Like free food, housing and education?
Quote:Illegal immigration will be a problem, until we give them no incentive to come here illegally.
Turn off the federal welfare and Mexico is the one with an immigration problem.
Quote:Slow down, everyone. Just slow down.
From reading Fox News, it isn't Obama that's doing this, it's the Border Patrol itself that is doing this.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/12/bor...in-danger/
"Border Patrol officials have pulled thousands of rifles from field agents in a large-scale effort to refurbish the weaponry, prompting the rank-and-file to complain that they've been left with the dangerous options of sharing guns or being disarmed altogether.
Nearly one-third of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection's 16,300 M4 carbine rifles were tested by the agency's office of training and development, which determined that more than 2,000 had the potential for malfunction. The rate of nearly 40 percent was "more than we are comfortable with,” said CBP Deputy Chief Ron Vitiello."
""Our top priority is to make sure our agents are safe,” said Vitiello, adding that the agency intends to eventually cycle through all of the rifles to ensure that those in need of repair are fixed. “They will be like new when they are refurbished.”"
Now, reasonable people can discuss whether this is a good idea or not, but let's not get all paranoid about it.
Thank you for posting facts, that this was a gun recall, hence the reason Border Patrol is losing the guns.
Onto the issue at hand, I would hope the Obama administration would supply Border Patrol with at least a AR-15, or a more powerful rifle while the recall is active.
I heard that Harry Reid personally took possession of over three hundred assault shotguns from god-fearing border agents and handed them directly to a group of Ebola-infected Arabian knights from the Al-Aqua Holy Water brigade at the Nacodoches bridge in East Tejas!
Quote:I guess it's a good thing he's arming the IRS, HHS, and a host of other government agencies that have no business being armed.
Forget anything else said here. This in and of itself is a real problem.
Quote:Slow down, everyone. Just slow down.
From reading Fox News, it isn't Obama that's doing this, it's the Border Patrol itself that is doing this.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/12/bor...in-danger/
"Border Patrol officials have pulled thousands of rifles from field agents in a large-scale effort to refurbish the weaponry, prompting the rank-and-file to complain that they've been left with the dangerous options of sharing guns or being disarmed altogether.
Nearly one-third of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection's 16,300 M4 carbine rifles were tested by the agency's office of training and development, which determined that more than 2,000 had the potential for malfunction. The rate of nearly 40 percent was "more than we are comfortable with,” said CBP Deputy Chief Ron Vitiello."
""Our top priority is to make sure our agents are safe,” said Vitiello, adding that the agency intends to eventually cycle through all of the rifles to ensure that those in need of repair are fixed. “They will be like new when they are refurbished.”"
Now, reasonable people can discuss whether this is a good idea or not, but let's not get all paranoid about it.
40% of 16,300 is 9,780. That's a great deal more than "more than 2,000". 15% is 2,445 which would seem a more factual number when stating "more than 2,000".
Also, if that many were malfunctioning to this degree (the supposed 40%), they would be testing the M4's our Troops use as well and it would be all over the news. Especially because we still have Troops in Afghanistan and more going to Iraq apparently. An M4 is an M4 and if anyone has abused them to the point of malfunctioning it would be the Soldiers and Marines who have repeatedly been deployed. The weapons aren't special just because they belong to Border Patrol, therefore prone to more potential malfunctions. I don't think this is on the up-and-up.
Quote:Slow down, everyone. Just slow down.
From reading Fox News, it isn't Obama that's doing this, it's the Border Patrol itself that is doing this.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/12/bor...in-danger/
"Border Patrol officials have pulled thousands of rifles from field agents in a large-scale effort to refurbish the weaponry, prompting the rank-and-file to complain that they've been left with the dangerous options of sharing guns or being disarmed altogether.
Nearly one-third of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection's 16,300 M4 carbine rifles were tested by the agency's office of training and development, which determined that more than 2,000 had the potential for malfunction. The rate of nearly 40 percent was "more than we are comfortable with,” said CBP Deputy Chief Ron Vitiello."
""Our top priority is to make sure our agents are safe,” said Vitiello, adding that the agency intends to eventually cycle through all of the rifles to ensure that those in need of repair are fixed. “They will be like new when they are refurbished.”"
Now, reasonable people can discuss whether this is a good idea or not, but let's not get all paranoid about it.
C'mon - paranoia is what we're selling here.
Check out the "reporter" of the original article.
This is right in the wheelhouse of the tin-foil set.
flsprtsgod apparently has better sources.
Quote:I'd be curious to know what the issue is with them, M4's are easily disassembled and replacement parts can be fixed in minutes, not even hours. So what would be wrong with them that would require taking them in for repair for longer then a few hours?
Just do some basic math:
Assuming the time to refurbish an M4 is 4 hours and there are 2,000 in need of maintenance:
2000 * 4 = 8000 man hours.
8000 / 40 = 200 man weeks.
Even if you have 10 qualified personnel working on these that's still 20 weeks of non stop work to return all to proper working condition. That's in addition to all the work that needs to be done normally.
Quote:I'd be curious to know what the issue is with them, M4's are easily disassembled and replacement parts can be fixed in minutes, not even hours. So what would be wrong with them that would require taking them in for repair for longer then a few hours?
1.) It's the government.
2.) Not just anyone with gun knowledge can take apart a M4. You have to be a certified armorer to take a gun apart and make any repairs or modifications. Border Patrol Agents aren't even allowed to change the sights on the weapons without an armorer and many of the agents have built their own rifles as a hobby.
3.) Anything that the Border Patrol uses has like half or a third of the life of a product used under normal use. Weapons, vehicles, and gadgets take a huge beating being used 24 hours a day in harsh environments.
Yes, it's obviously true. President Obama is disarming border patrol agents because he hates America.
Quote:1.) It's the government.
2.) Not just anyone with gun knowledge can take apart a M4. You have to be a certified armorer to take a gun apart and make any repairs or modifications. Border Patrol Agents aren't even allowed to change the sights on the weapons without an armorer and many of the agents have built their own rifles as a hobby.
3.) Anything that the Border Patrol uses has like half or a third of the life of a product used under normal use. Weapons, vehicles, and gadgets take a huge beating being used 24 hours a day in harsh environments.
That's pretty darn sad. In the Army we did what we had to to make our weapons work. We didn't have or need a certified person to do it. I still think it all stinks.
Quote:That's pretty darn sad. In the Army we did what we had to to make our weapons work. We didn't have or need a certified person to do it. I still think it all stinks.
Sadly, its the direction America and, more specifically, the government is trending.
It's the government's way of passing culpability to the certified armorer/instructor/whatever. "Don't sue us. We properly trained XXX. He/she is the one who must have deviated from his/her training or acted outside their scope, which caused the problem."