The people that own Wal Mart pay more in taxes than the people that work and shop there?
Quote:The people that own Wal Mart pay more in taxes than the people that work and shop there?
"Why did you rob that bank?"
"Because that's where the money is!"
The idea that someone would be surprised that the people that have and make so much money would also pay the most taxes is silly.
When you actually look at the tax burden overall it's pretty flat from the middle quintile and up, and even declines for the wealthiest compared to those just below them. It's time for a wealth tax.
![[Image: 550%20total%20effective%20tax%20rates.jpg]](http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/550%20total%20effective%20tax%20rates.jpg)
Quote:That's interesting.
Take a look at how rich the richest one percent are.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneywisewom...e-percent/
In 2010, the richest 1% owned 35% of the national wealth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth
Hey, I have nothing against the super wealthy. They make a lot of money, and they pay a lot of taxes as a result. They also employ a lot of people and create a lot of jobs.
Rich people create very few jobs. In fact, per dollar of income they create much less employment than poor people do.
Being the guy siphoning off massive amounts of money from a monstrous corporation doesn't make someone a job creator, and the sooner that meme is abandoned as fantasy the better.
Quote:"Why did you rob that bank?"
"Because that's where the money is!"
The idea that someone would be surprised that the people that have and make so much money would also pay the most taxes is silly.
When you actually look at the tax burden overall it's pretty flat from the middle quintile and up, and even declines for the wealthiest compared to those just below them. It's time for a wealth tax.
NO.
N. O. to a "wealth tax." That is totally unfair. I don't mind income taxes, but once your income gets past the income tax, it's yours, and should not be confiscated just because someone else wants some of it.
Quote:NO.
N. O. to a "wealth tax." That is totally unfair. I don't mind income taxes, but once your income gets past the income tax, it's yours, and should not be confiscated just because someone else wants some of it.
The problem with your point of view is that money is actually a function of society, and is a collective good. Without the collective the money doesn't actually have value, and as such hoarding it has to be something that society actively discourages. A small wealth tax on holdings over some threshold would do incredible things for the economy to spur investment. Couple it with proper trade and labor laws and suddenly big corporations can't hire and invest fast enough.
It's all about incentive for the desired behavior. I'd also like to see a transaction tax on all public trading to make high frequency trading untenable. Time to make things about the people again, not about amassing massive wealth for a few individuals.
Quote:Rich people create very few jobs. In fact, per dollar of income they create much less employment than poor people do.
Being the guy siphoning off massive amounts of money from a monstrous corporation doesn't make someone a job creator, and the sooner that meme is abandoned as fantasy the better.
Oh, man, this is where you and I part ways
completely.
I have some friends who are rich, and they didn't make their money "siphoning it off from a large corporation." They built businesses from the ground up, they did it with blood, sweat, and tears, and taking big risks, and along they way they created good jobs for hundreds of families, some of them in their particular business organization, and others outside it, like realtors, contractors, landscapers, boat builders, housekeepers, divorce lawyers, car dealers, and on and on and on. And the money they managed to put in the bank went to mortgages and loans to people who needed them, and some of that money went to loans for people to start businesses that created hundreds of more jobs.
I will NEVER discount the idea that some people are job creators and they get rich as a result of that, and they deserve their wealth because they created jobs and products that make lives a lot easier.
Quote:Oh, man, this is where you and I part ways completely.
I have some friends who are rich, and they didn't make their money "siphoning it off from a large corporation." They built businesses from the ground up, they did it with blood, sweat, and tears, and taking big risks, and along they way they created good jobs for hundreds of families, some of them in their particular business organization, and others outside it, like realtors, contractors, landscapers, boat builders, housekeepers, divorce lawyers, car dealers, and on and on and on. And the money they managed to put in the bank went to mortgages and loans to people who needed them, and some of that money went to loans for people to start businesses that created hundreds of more jobs.
I will NEVER discount the idea that some people are job creators and they get rich as a result of that, and they deserve their wealth because they created jobs and products that make lives a lot easier.
We definitely do part ways.
I recognize that they didn't create those jobs, society did. They managed to be the person in the right position to harvest a lot of the value out of something that society wanted and needed.
There's no such thing as a person as a job creator, that's something that society creates. People as job creators are really just functioning as a small part of society and getting richly rewarded for it. Of course when you say rich person and I say rich person we're probably talking about two different things since I doubt you know anyone that's pulling in seven figures from a large corporation that would run just as well or just as poorly without them siphoning off that money as it does with them siphoning it off.
Quote:The problem with your point of view is that money is actually a function of society, and is a collective good. Without the collective the money doesn't actually have value, and as such hoarding it has to be something that society actively discourages. A small wealth tax on holdings over some threshold would do incredible things for the economy to spur investment. Couple it with proper trade and labor laws and suddenly big corporations can't hire and invest fast enough.
It's all about incentive for the desired behavior. I'd also like to see a transaction tax on all public trading to make high frequency trading untenable. Time to make things about the people again, not about amassing massive wealth for a few individuals.
I'm starting to think you are a complete communist. No insult intended.
You're going to spur investment by taking away the money that people would invest?
You think the money is hoarded? What do you think happens to that money? That rich people put it under a mattress? What is this, the middle ages, where rich people had hoards of gold in their castles?
Quote:The problem with your point of view is that money is actually a function of society, and is a collective good. Without the collective the money doesn't actually have value, and as such hoarding it has to be something that society actively discourages. A small wealth tax on holdings over some threshold would do incredible things for the economy to spur investment. Couple it with proper trade and labor laws and suddenly big corporations can't hire and invest fast enough.
It's all about incentive for the desired behavior. I'd also like to see a transaction tax on all public trading to make high frequency trading untenable. Time to make things about the people again, not about amassing massive wealth for a few individuals.
When you start talking about "desired behavior" you have gone completely off the rails...
Quote:We definitely do part ways.
I recognize that they didn't create those jobs, society did. They managed to be the person in the right position to harvest a lot of the value out of something that society wanted and needed.
There's no such thing as a person as a job creator, that's something that society creates. People as job creators are really just functioning as a small part of society and getting richly rewarded for it. Of course when you say rich person and I say rich person we're probably talking about two different things since I doubt you know anyone that's pulling in seven figures from a large corporation that would run just as well or just as poorly without them siphoning off that money as it does with them siphoning it off.
You're right. I don't know anyone that's pulling in seven figures from a large corporation that would function just as well without them. I do know some people who earn millions each year by inventing products that "society" apparently never had a clue might be possible, and I do know people who earn millions each year by creating jobs for hundreds if not thousands of people and who have customers who are extremely grateful for the opportunity to purchase these products.
Quote:I'm starting to think you are a complete communist. No insult intended.
You're going to spur investment by taking away the money that people would invest?
You think the money is hoarded? What do you think happens to that money? That rich people put it under a mattress? What is this, the middle ages, where rich people had hoards of gold in their castles?
Communism? Why would you even need money for communism.
Don't be so small minded, ytraM, think about it for a moment, you spur investment by incentivising it. The problem we have currently is all of the incentive is in the wrong direction, things like tax breaks for moving factories overseas. Instead some good negative reinforcement is needed. A wealth tax is a good method for it. Wealth that sits around not getting spent or invested gets a small tax on it. It's really not that incredible of any idea since most wealth is invested anyway. Along with proper trade and labor reform it would create a very positive effect.
Quote:You're right. I don't know anyone that's pulling in seven figures from a large corporation that would function just as well without them. I do know some people who earn millions each year by inventing products that "society" apparently never had a clue might be possible, and I do know people who earn millions each year by creating jobs for hundreds if not thousands of people and who have customers who are extremely grateful for the opportunity to purchase these products.
Go ahead and throw some names out.
How much money would they make "inventing products" without society to back them up? Do you know what patent and copyright protection are? They're functions of society meant to encourage invention. Everything in our society of laws is meant to encourage or deter behavior. Taxation policy does the same, though the politicians might deny it.
Quote:When you start talking about "desired behavior" you have gone completely off the rails...
So you think laws and regulations have no purpose at all?
I can't believe you guys still try. He's Okla-Commie for a reason.
Quote:I can't believe you guys still try. He's Okla-Commie for a reason.
Can't have a message board without talking to each other.
Quote:Can't have a message board without talking to each other.
I'm not sure what his problem is, anyway. It's not like the discussion isn't civil and in earnest. At least with me overlooking the communism stuff being thrown about.
Quote:I'm starting to think you are a complete communist. No insult intended.
You're going to spur investment by taking away the money that people would invest?
You think the money is hoarded? What do you think happens to that money? That rich people put it under a mattress? What is this, the middle ages, where rich people had hoards of gold in their castles?
You're wasting your time here. Seriously. He's not insulted by the communist label. He wears it on his sleeve with great pride.