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What that picture doesn't show is where the corner was in the coverage on Shorts.  The closest orange jersey shown in the pic is Nelson who looks to be moving to cover Harbor.  I'm curious to see where the other DB is on that side of the field because it could explain why Blake moved on in his progression.

On the pass it looks to me like there are two defenders in position to jump the routes unless he threw it short so the receiver would have to come back for the ball. In that case, it would be a minimal gain and just used up clock.

 

You have to take snap shots with a grain of salt. Appear to be open is exactly what the bengals want Bortles to see.

 

That doesn't excuse his poor "throw out of bounds" ball, but I can't fault him for avoiding the two underneath routes.

Quote:What that picture doesn't show is where the corner was in the coverage on Shorts.  The closest orange jersey shown in the pic is Nelson who looks to be moving to cover Harbor.  I'm curious to see where the other DB is on that side of the field because it could explain why Blake moved on in his progression.

He was two or three steps back and prepared to close - but not tight enough to jump the route or make a pick. 

be sure to watch the long Jeremy Hill run.  there seems to be confusion on who is at fault there.  Im betting its Cyprien.  It looked very similar to the run by Reggie Bush in preseason.

Quote:On the pass it looks to me like there are two defenders in position to jump the routes unless he threw it short so the receiver would have to come back for the ball. In that case, it would be a minimal gain and just used up clock.

 

You have to take snap shots with a grain of salt. Appear to be open is exactly what the bengals want Bortles to see.

 

That doesn't excuse his poor "throw out of bounds" ball, but I can't fault him for avoiding the two underneath routes.

 

I agree with this. But -  I watched the slow-mo several times before making the post though, and based on what I saw from the defenders, the underneath pass would have resulted in at least six yards if it was thrown remotely well.  I don't believe they were tight enough to jump the route.  That could have been the concern after his prior picks in similar situations however. 

 

Sure - it chews clock and perhaps an OB throw is even better, but I'l take 6 yards underneath and burning 20 seconds over the pick every day. 

At the moment Shorts breaks - his guy is practically flat-footed.  Robinson's guy is literally 5 yards back, but at least beginning to close.  (Bortles may make that throw if he starts his progression there)

 Screenshots are definitely misleading at times, and a 6 yard pass is still just a six yard pass, but it was there to be had. 

 

Quote:I agree with this. But -  I watched the slow-mo several times before making the post though, and based on what I saw from the defenders, the underneath pass would have resulted in at least six yards if it was thrown remotely well.  I don't believe they were tight enough to jump the route.  That could have been the concern after his prior picks in similar situations however. 

 

Sure - it chews clock and perhaps an OB throw is even better, but I'l take 6 yards underneath and burning 20 seconds over the pick every day. 

He's been burnt a few times underestimating the closing speed of NFL DBs and those routes are pick sixes if they do get jumped.

 

I would take about any throw over an int, but if his true intentions were to throw it out of bounds, then I prefer that decision over throwing a risky pass for a short gain with time running down.

Shorts is not open because Reggie Nelson is ready to jump in front of the in-route.

 

Robinson otoh is open

Quote:He's been burnt a few times underestimating the closing speed of NFL DBs and those routes are pick sixes if they do get jumped.

 

That's what I was alluding to. 

 

In regard to the throw out of bounds - that was one terrible attempt to throw OB. 

Quote:be sure to watch the long Jeremy Hill run.  there seems to be confusion on who is at fault there.  Im betting its Cyprien.  It looked very similar to the run by Reggie Bush in preseason.

 

BINGO - I saw it as Cyp on both plays.  

Quote:BINGO - I saw it as Cyp on both plays.  

 

somebody told me it was JT Thomas who messed up.  he didn't stay in his gap and got pushed outside

 

Quote:At the moment Shorts breaks - his guy is practically flat-footed.  Robinson's guy is literally 5 yards back, but at least beginning to close.  (Bortles may make that throw if he starts his progression there)

 Screenshots are definitely misleading at times, and a 6 yard pass is still just a six yard pass, but it was there to be had. 

 

 

 

I haven't read this mentioned in the thread but am surprised no one has brought it up - what the above picture suggests to me is poor play design or conservative play design - it looks like all 4 targets are cutting at about the same level. Wouldn't it be better to have the 4 receivers all try an attack various points of the field rather than what the above looks like? Were we running patterns predominantly like the above all game? If so, its not surprising that we struggled in the 1st half especially. That Cinci defense wouldn't have to work hard defending the above routes. 

Quote:I haven't read this mentioned in the thread but am surprised no one has brought it up - what the above picture suggests to me is poor play design or conservative play design - it looks like all 4 targets are cutting at about the same level. Wouldn't it be better to have the 4 receivers all try an attack various points of the field rather than what the above looks like? Were we running patterns predominantly like the above all game? If so, its not surprising that we struggled in the 1st half especially. That Cinci defense wouldn't have to work hard defending the above routes. 

 

A lot of route trees have guys breaking in a similar area, it's designed to try to confuse coverage. Not that this is an exceptional example of route structure. You've seen the Jaguars mess it up a lot this year where two or three DBs would cover one guy while someone else ran free out of his break.

Quote:BINGO - I saw it as Cyp on both plays.  

 

Cyp seemed to over pursue in much the same way on both of those plays IMO.  Not exactly sure where he's coached to play this one. 

 

As far as confusion about fault - it's clear that JT didn't gap fit properly or he and Bradley would  probably not be spouting it in post game pressers. 

Apparently both could he and Cyp screwed up. 

 

All22 will show it better, but JT gets pushed outside by a pulling blocker into the space Cyp is closing to fill. Had he maintained inside leverage there it would have funneled the runner to Cyprien. Instead Cyprien is unable to cut inside to cover Thomas's gap.  Had Cyp played back a bit he may have recovered and made a tackle.

 

Comments by JT and Bradley make it seem he should have closed off that cut-back lane. Other perspectives welcome...

 



 

JT gets moved outside opening the cut back lane (if Cyp is three steps deeper - maybe he makes the adjustment and tackle)

 

Quote:I haven't read this mentioned in the thread but am surprised no one has brought it up - what the above picture suggests to me is poor play design or conservative play design - it looks like all 4 targets are cutting at about the same level. Wouldn't it be better to have the 4 receivers all try an attack various points of the field rather than what the above looks like? Were we running patterns predominantly like the above all game? If so, its not surprising that we struggled in the 1st half especially. That Cinci defense wouldn't have to work hard defending the above routes. 

The middle receivers are running post routes to the end zone essentially.  Their target area is deeper.

Quote:I haven't read this mentioned in the thread but am surprised no one has brought it up - what the above picture suggests to me is poor play design or conservative play design - it looks like all 4 targets are cutting at about the same level. Wouldn't it be better to have the 4 receivers all try an attack various points of the field rather than what the above looks like? Were we running patterns predominantly like the above all game? If so, its not surprising that we struggled in the 1st half especially. That Cinci defense wouldn't have to work hard defending the above routes. 

The two middle routes are headed to deeper levels. The play is designed to make the DBs have to make a split second decision on which cut to follow. That's by design.

 

If the DBs make a mistake and bite on the same route, then someone is left open. It's just a well covered play by the bengals.

Quote:Cyp seemed to over pursue in much the same way on both of those plays IMO.  Not exactly sure where he's coached to play this one. 

 

As far as confusion about fault - it's clear that JT didn't gap fit properly or he and Bradley would  probably not be spouting it in post game pressers. 

Apparently both could he and Cyp screwed up. 

 

All22 will show it better, but JT gets pushed outside by a pulling blocker into the space Cyp is closing to fill. Had he maintained inside leverage there it would have funneled the runner to Cyprien. Instead Cyprien is unable to cut inside to cover Thomas's gap.  Had Cyp played back a bit he may have recovered and made a tackle.

 

Comments by JT and Bradley make it seem he should have closed off that cut-back lane. Other perspectives welcome...

 



 

JT gets moved outside opening the cut back lane (if Cyp is three steps deeper - maybe he makes the adjustment and tackle)

 

The biggest thing I see is a total over pursuit by the line. It almost looks like a stunt to the right.

 

Cyp was the last guy on the edge. You are trained in that situation to defend the edge and turn the guy to the inside where there should be help. There was no help.

 

I can't fault him on that play. It appears that the rest of the defense was out of position

Quote:The biggest thing I see is a total over pursuit by the line. It almost looks like a stunt to the right.

 

Cyp was the last guy on the edge. You are trained in that situation to defend the edge and turn the guy to the inside where there should be help. There was no help.

 

I can't fault him on that play. It appears that the rest of the defense was out of position

 

Cyp was the only right guy? lol

Here's one just for laughs.  

 

Reggie Nelson owned by one <b>Denard Xavier "Shoelace" Robinson.</b>

 

DXSR fights off Nelson's initial attempt to get a hand on him:



…………….

...Then 15 yards later….

 



 

------------------

 



Good for 39 yards. Good block by Harbor actually helped spring him.