Quote:Wait... So did the founding fathers decide to have no government?
Is that what we are saying?
Because, I'm pretty sure that the Constitution was created because the Articles of Confederation was a disaster...
But yeah, the southern folks think that the Articles were better... You know because free labor rox!
C'mon guys... Remember your history classes!
Quote:We're the hell are you getting no government from?
Tell me if you've heard this one:
A drunk poster staggers into a message board...
Quote:Ask and you shall receive, most homeschooling kids do better then average. This article cites a report they average in the 86th percentile.
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp
Thanks, that is very interesting...I wish the people in Washington would see need to change public education, but that would require common sense which is removed once elected or appointed to a position of Government
I was 14 my sophomore year, the only thing I was concerned about was chasing tail.
Quote:Thanks, that is very interesting...I wish the people in Washington would see need to change public education, but that would require common sense which is removed once elected or appointed to a position of Government
Washington is the largest proponent of our failed system because it produces "educated" know-nothings who have no knowledge of their history and cannot understand their role in safeguarding our society. Politicians want docile sheep, public schools create them.
Quote:Washington is the largest proponent of our failed system because it produces "educated" know-nothings who have no knowledge of their history and cannot understand their role in safeguarding our society. Politicians want docile sheep, public schools create them.
agreed...Washington is the main problem facing our country today...The people in Washington have forgotten that they are supposed to be public servants rather than greedy pocket lining self serving crooks
What's creating sheep is that we only have two political parties to choose from. Certainly not our public schools. That's another issue entirely, and is being discussed in another thread. And of course the way parents try to brainwash their kids to follow their beliefs. Be they conservative or be they liberal. (not all parents do this, of course. But a lot of parents want to raise children who follow the party line)
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Ask and you shall receive, most homeschooling kids do better then average. This article cites a report they average in the 86th percentile.
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp
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Well gee, I'd never expect a place called 'homeschool advocates' to try and say something like this. The studies that say things like this tend to ignore the full range of home schoolers. The demographics of the samples tend to be whiter and wealthier than the average homeschooler is. So of course it's going to say what they want it to say. It's easy to do.
Quote:What's creating sheep is that we only have two political parties to choose from. Certainly not our public schools. That's another issue entirely, and is being discussed in another thread. And of course the way parents try to brainwash their kids to follow their beliefs. Be they conservative or be they liberal. (not all parents do this, of course. But a lot of parents want to raise children who follow the party line)
Well gee, I'd never expect a place called 'homeschool advocates' to try and say something like this. The studies that say things like this tend to ignore the full range of home schoolers. The demographics of the samples tend to be whiter and wealthier than the average homeschooler is. So of course it's going to say what they want it to say. It's easy to do.
I've never seen a study that suggest it's anything different. If you have one id be interested to see it.
The problems not teachers in the public schools it's the standardization required to operate schools the sizes they are today.
Quote:What's creating sheep is that we only have two political parties to choose from. Certainly not our public schools. That's another issue entirely, and is being discussed in another thread. And of course the way parents try to brainwash their kids to follow their beliefs. Be they conservative or be they liberal. (not all parents do this, of course. But a lot of parents want to raise children who follow the party line)
<div>
Well gee, I'd never expect a place called 'homeschool advocates' to try and say something like this. The studies that say things like this tend to ignore the full range of home schoolers. The demographics of the samples tend to be whiter and wealthier than the average homeschooler is. So of course it's going to say what they want it to say. It's easy to do.
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That's the problem with statistics...One set of advocates for a cause has a set of stats for their cause, and the opposite side has another set of stats for their cause...No one can tell which stat to believe...
as far as being sheep, it's not so much being brain washed or just following everyone blindly, it's a case of where we have no choice anymore...We have the health police who want to eliminate certain foods from being sold, we have the electronics industry who only sell certain things anymore,Try buying just a printer, or just a fax machine (yes they are still used heavily today)...You can't buy just a fax machine or just a printer, you have to buy an all in one because that's really all that's available...Our local grocery stores here only sell hamburger that is 85% or higher now...My point is you can't just buy what you want, or eat what you want, you have to settle for what they are allowing you to buy and have...
It's the same thing in Washington, we have no say and we just have to follow what they want us to because they have pretty much taken away our right to choose much of anything anymore...
whole milk has less processing so shouldn't cost less to buy? 2% and fat free or 1% is cheaper than whole milk...Why? Because the government says it's better for us so they charge less so more people buy it...The health police are trying to regulate the fast food industry and eliminate unhealthy meals and snacks
Quote:I've never seen a study that suggest it's anything different. If you have one id be interested to see it.
The problems not teachers in the public schools it's the standardization required to operate schools the sizes they are today.
I've never seen a study that actually looks at the full range of homeschooled kids. Of course wealthy parents are going to have better results. They can hire tutors, and give on one one time full time to their kids. That's something neither private schools nor public schools could ever do. It's another advantage that the wealthy have. Most of those studies are done by mailing lists, which mostly include the wealthier home schooled kids.
Public school class sizes are a problem. My wife has 190 students spread over 7 classes. But most of her students <i>do do well</i>. And it's on parents to actually try to help their kids through school. How many parents try to help their kids in school? Of course, you have the parents who also try to do their kid's work for them. When my kids struggle in school, I see it as my job to help them and give them the individual time they need.
My wife does a fantastic job teaching, but she only has so many hours in a day that she can devote to work. In addition to teaching, she has to raise three kids (and two babies), grade papers, plan lessons, and be a wife. What she does however, is make sure that the parents have the tools necessary to help their kids. She calls parents teacher meetings (you'd be surprised at how difficult some parents are to contact, and they always expect people to be available when they are. I remember that complaint made by Niel Cavuto on his show, that teachers should be more available, as if they don't have lives too) . She also keeps a copy of all of her notes, and has them available for parents if they want them.
If parents would help their kids out (and NOT do it for them), and give them the individual time they need, then I think we'd see our public schools improve. Teachers can only do so much. Parents need to do their part as well. The environment you are raised in matters a lot. Which is why those wealthy kids being homeschooled do better 'on average'. Because they get one on one time that they need.
Quote:I've never seen a study that actually looks at the full range of homeschooled kids. Of course wealthy parents are going to have better results. They can hire tutors, and give on one one time full time to their kids. That's something neither private schools nor public schools could ever do. It's another advantage that the wealthy have. Most of those studies are done by mailing lists, which mostly include the wealthier home schooled kids.
Public school class sizes are a problem. My wife has 190 students spread over 7 classes. But most of her students <i>do do well</i>. And it's on parents to actually try to help their kids through school. How many parents try to help their kids in school? Of course, you have the parents who also try to do their kid's work for them. When my kids struggle in school, I see it as my job to help them and give them the individual time they need.
My wife does a fantastic job teaching, but she only has so many hours in a day that she can devote to work. In addition to teaching, she has to raise three kids (and two babies), grade papers, plan lessons, and be a wife. What she does however, is make sure that the parents have the tools necessary to help their kids. She calls parents teacher meetings (you'd be surprised at how difficult some parents are to contact, and they always expect people to be available when they are. I remember that complaint made by Niel Cavuto on his show, that teachers should be more available, as if they don't have lives too) . She also keeps a copy of all of her notes, and has them available for parents if they want them.
If parents would help their kids out (and NOT do it for them), and give them the individual time they need, then I think we'd see our public schools improve. Teachers can only do so much. Parents need to do their part as well. The environment you are raised in matters a lot. Which is why those wealthy kids being homeschooled do better 'on average'. Because they get one on one time that they need.
I think you hit the nail on the head, kids failing in school is more on parents not doing thier part I agree 100%.
However I think you're assuming it's wealthy people that are homeschooling kids mostly, In my experience ( I was home schooled for 2 years) that's not the case. We're not an overly wealthy family but we plan on homeschooling our kids at some point down the road. I think you'll find that kids who are home schooled are more involved that's why there's better success rate with home schooled children. But regardless studies have shown for YEARS kids that are home schooled do better then their peers hands down. I think that has to do with the level of one on one attention a kid gets and the involvement of the parents that are homeschooling.
Your wife sounds like a wonderful teacher and her students are lucky to have a teacher like that. I had a teacher that sounds like your wife she literally changed my life. To me teaching is one of the most noble careers out there.
Quote:I think you hit the nail on the head, kids failing in school is more on parents not doing thier part I agree 100%.
However I think you're assuming it's wealthy people that are homeschooling kids mostly, In my experience ( I was home schooled for 2 years) that's not the case. We're not an overly wealthy family but we plan on homeschooling our kids at some point down the road. I think you'll find that kids who are home schooled are more involved that's why there's better success rate with home schooled children. But regardless studies have shown for YEARS kids that are home schooled do better then their peers hands down. I think that has to do with the level of one on one attention a kid gets and the involvement of the parents that are homeschooling.
Your wife sounds like a wonderful teacher and her students are lucky to have a teacher like that. I had a teacher that sounds like your wife she literally changed my life. To me teaching is one of the most noble careers out there.
I do know that the limited number of home schooled kids were not wealthy...the 3 I personally know lived in Middleburg and didn't have much...Their parents wanted to home school the kids because they didn't believe the public school system taught them well enough...I know of 3 more families that were not wealthy that home schooled their kids who lived in Hilliard, and southside and all of them did very well...Of course that's a very limited number considering the total count of home schooled kids
Quote:I do know that the limited number of home schooled kids were not wealthy...the 3 I personally know lived in Middleburg and didn't have much...Their parents wanted to home school the kids because they didn't believe the public school system taught them well enough...I know of 3 more families that were not wealthy that home schooled their kids who lived in Hilliard, and southside and all of them did very well...Of course that's a very limited number considering the total count of home schooled kids
Most people that home school have a deep hatred of all things government. Basically us back wood hicks lol.
Quote:I think you hit the nail on the head, kids failing in school is more on parents not doing thier part I agree 100%.
However I think you're assuming it's wealthy people that are homeschooling kids mostly, In my experience ( I was home schooled for 2 years) that's not the case. We're not an overly wealthy family but we plan on homeschooling our kids at some point down the road. I think you'll find that kids who are home schooled are more involved that's why there's better success rate with home schooled children. But regardless studies have shown for YEARS kids that are home schooled do better then their peers hands down. I think that has to do with the level of one on one attention a kid gets and the involvement of the parents that are homeschooling.
Your wife sounds like a wonderful teacher and her students are lucky to have a teacher like that. I had a teacher that sounds like your wife she literally changed my life. To me teaching is one of the most noble careers out there.
I'm not assuming that at all. I'm saying that most of those
studies mainly include wealthy families. Some people can home teach, while others most certainly cannot. I'm saying that the studies don't include the full range of home schooled students. If it did, we'd probably see a wider variety of results there.
We couldn't home teach, because with 5 kids, there's no way we could afford it. Especially on a teacher's salary, and a Rental-store manager's salary (and my job is always in danger because Red Box is putting places like us out of business). (And especially since we live in a high-cost area). If we tried it, even though we're both very smart people (at least I'd like to think so), our kids would not do as well.
There are a lot of people who homeschool their kids that do terrible jobs at it. Which just ends up hurting the kids. That's not to say that homeschooling shouldn't be an option. I just think that it's certainly not for everyone. And that our public education system does do a pretty good job. It needs to do better, but it's not as bad as some people think. We just need parents to be more involved in their children's education. It's not hard to go over your children's homework with them. And if you don't understand, try to contact the teacher
Quote:I'm not assuming that at all. I'm saying that most of those studies mainly include wealthy families. Some people can home teach, while others most certainly cannot. I'm saying that the studies don't include the full range of home schooled students. If it did, we'd probably see a wider variety of results there.
We couldn't home teach, because with 5 kids, there's no way we could afford it. Especially on a teacher's salary, and a Rental-store manager's salary (and my job is always in danger because Red Box is putting places like us out of business). (And especially since we live in a high-cost area). If we tried it, even though we're both very smart people (at least I'd like to think so), our kids would not do as well.
There are a lot of people who homeschool their kids that do terrible jobs at it. Which just ends up hurting the kids. That's not to say that homeschooling shouldn't be an option. I just think that it's certainly not for everyone. And that our public education system does do a pretty good job. It needs to do better, but it's not as bad as some people think. We just need parents to be more involved in their children's education. It's not hard to go over your children's homework with them. And if you don't understand, try to contact the teacher
side topic, I spent 6 years working as a Store Manager for Blockbuster I loved that job! who do you work for? I thought Red Box did put everyone out of business, I haven't seen a video rental store in YEARS.
Quote:side topic, I spent 6 years working as a Store Manager for Blockbuster I loved that job! who do you work for? I thought Red Box did put everyone out of business, I haven't seen a video rental store in YEARS.
I work for a local chain of rental places. We've evolved our strategy in order to stay alive, and for the most part no longer offer new titles. We've made some other steps that have helped our survival, but I'm still worried one day I'll get the call that we're going out of business. I've worked there for 14 years. Been manager there for 8 years.
Quote:Most people that home school have a deep hatred of all things government. Basically us back wood hicks lol.
I was born and raised in Idaho, lived in the Jax area about 20 years, I'm just an ol country boy, the term Redneck comes to mind but the younger generation really doesn't understand that term....They think it's all about racism and uneducated people with no teeth that drive trucks and live in trailers lol
Quote:I would bet there is a lot of this in home schooled kids, but I also believe there are some that do well...I personally know a family that home schooled 3 of their kids and they did very well on the state tests and all went on to college...While I believe you are correct in your statements, it's only fair to assume there are also good results as well...I know you didn't claim there weren't, which brings me to wonder what the percentage of home schooled kids finish higher than traditionally schooled students, and how many are subpar...That would be an interesting statistic...I would think the likelihood of being above traditionally schooled students would depend on the method used by the parent
I think a great deal of the success or failure of home schooled kids lies in WHO is teaching them specifically and the environment in which they're being taught.
I know many home schooled kids who made excellent grades, passed all of the tests and have gone on to college so do awesome there as well.
I also know some home schooled kids who are barely hanging on and are really struggling. My husband's niece was home schooled for a couple of years until my mother-in-law was not able to understand enough of what was required to keep teaching her so the niece when back to public school. She's now in the 10th grade and is doing well. Actually she's ahead of her classmates in most subjects.
My cousin and his wife have 4 rambunctious kids under the age of 11. They're not bad, just kids and all very kid-like. She's trying to home school them all but it's a very chaotic atmosphere and they're all failing at the basic level, or just passing enough to 'pass'. I don't know at what point my aunt and uncle or her parents step in and say, 'enough is enough', but I wish they would because good intentions are doing those kids no favors and that will translate to the workforce and family life when they become of age. The sad thing is, they are really smart kids with what they do know and all have such good attitudes about things in life but my cousin's insistence in his wife HS them is going to ruin them. I know my aunt and uncle and her parents have voices their concerns, but no one has really pushed the issue. They live down there in FL and I don't know enough about it to be able to make a solid case or I would have already.
I'm a statistic, if you will, of what it's like to be pushed through school and graduating without ever having really grasped a lot of stuff and it sucks. I didn't know any better to speak up because I was just a kid and as long as I was passing classes everybody was okay with it. It's a crappy thing to do to a kid, giving them a subpar education. It's also crappy to ignore the fact that your kid has a disorder, in my case ADD, just to save face. My parents didn't do that because back in the 80's stuff like that just wasn't known about so it was never a thought in our minds, but I know parents now who DO have that information and still let their kids suffer because they don't want to admit there's an issue with Perfect Little Sally thinking it's a reflection on their parenting skills.
Quote:I'm not assuming that at all. I'm saying that most of those studies mainly include wealthy families. Some people can home teach, while others most certainly cannot. I'm saying that the studies don't include the full range of home schooled students. If it did, we'd probably see a wider variety of results there.
The funny thing is, all of the people I know, save one family, who home school are definitely NOT wealthy. They're not poor or low income either. They just have different priorities. They believe the education of their kids and their future is more important than the newest iPad or car or fashionable clothes, etc., and THAT'S where they put their money. The only ones I know who HS and are 'wealthy', and by wealthy I mean they really lack for nothing..... their kids are doing the worst. I explain why in another post here.
I do agree it's not for everyone. As much as I would have benefited from it personally, my mom was not the home schooling type and had 5 kids to look after. I was the only one who would have needed it, but I think 24/7 around each other would have been bad news. Lol.
Starting salary in Duval for a teacher is about $34,500 IIRC- not terrible but nothing to brag about.
They get about $800 - $1000 per year raises for cost of living. Also- they are eligible for a decent bonus (aprox $5000 paid annually) if the teacher is national board certified. So a veteran teacher with 10 solid years experience is making about $44,000 to $50,000.
That pay is lousy. I know it doesn't seem terrible with 2 months of summer off and all those holidays. But then I remember the parents, all the red tape, the futility of it all, the lack of teacher protection- and the fact that I hate kids.
I would consider teaching in Duval at closer to $90,000 to $100,000 per year.
My point is: Anybody smart enough to become a teacher would know better than to get involved wth that profession.