Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:While that's true. Those guys also had established HC pedigrees and experience. Gus is a 2nd year HC. He's still learning just like the rest of the team. And we see that with clock management and play calling. And he even calls himself out on it when he's wrong.


I'm not saying he's the answer and will lead us to a Super Bowl. But I'm not saying he's a terrible coach. I'm saying it's too soon to tell.

 

I don't see it as too soon to tell.

 

Coaches are a lot like QBs, if they have what it takes to be great you don't see them getting blown out by 20 and 30 points in more than half of their games.

 

Luckily for us it's possible to win with mediocre coaching if the personnel is good. Plus, with Bortles in the fold it will be easier to find a better coach should the team choose to down the road.

 

edit: Wanted to add, do you recall how many times the 1995 Jaguars got beat by more than 20 points? Once. Only lost by more than 10 points 3 other times besides that one 20 point loss.

 

Coughlin was a great coach, Gus is just a guy.

Quote:I don't see it as too soon to tell.


Coaches are a lot like QBs, if they have what it takes to be great you don't see them getting blown out by 20 and 30 points in more than half of their games.


Luckily for us it's possible to win with mediocre coaching if the personnel is good. Plus, with Bortles in the fold it will be easier to find a better coach should the team choose to down the road.

I see what you're saying. Though I do disagree a bit.


Like you said though, Bortles will solve a lot of our problems. And if they decide to go in a new coaching direction, he'll help attract better guys.

Playing devils advocate, one could easily state the change in the Seattle D came when they hired Pete Carroll in January 2010 not Gus Bradley in January 2009.

 

Gus started in January 2009

2009 - Seattle 24th in the league in D

Pete Carroll Arrives January 2010

2010 - Seattle 27th in the league in D

2011 - Seattle 9th in the league in D

2012 - Seattle 4th in the league in D

Not really. Pete Carroll has never been good with X's and Os.

Quote:Playing devils advocate, one could easily state the change in the Seattle D came when they hired Pete Carroll in January 2010 not Gus Bradley in January 2009.

Gus started in January 2009

2009 - Seattle 24th in the league in D
Pete Carroll Arrives January 2010

2010 - Seattle 27th in the league in D

2011 - Seattle 9th in the league in D

2012 - Seattle 4th in the league in D

Yeah. You could also argue how it got worse when Carroll was initially hired.

well do we want to be the raiders?  I say we give him at least 3 years.   even if it doesn't work out, at least the next coaching candidates know they will have some time to make it work.  or we will end up like the raiders where no one decent will take the job.

Quote:Yeah. You could also argue how it got worse when Carroll was initially hired.

A change of that level is within a margin of statistical noise that it would be ignored.

 

The change from 27th to 9th, on the other hand...

But why are we talking about the chiefs and niners when those rosters where loaded prior to Harbaugh and Reid?

I've never seen any coach win with a team of scrubs. You have to have elite talent somewhere on the team to succeed. If this is not a concept you can grab then there really is no need for the conversation.

USC was never good at defense under Carroll. They were all about offense. Sorry, it wasn't Pete

The whole Bradley - Carroll argument in SEA is tricky. I think the more important question is when did Seattle's front office net guys like Sherman, Mebane, Thomas, Irvin, and other players on defense, etc?

Quote:The whole Bradley - Carroll argument in SEA is tricky. I think the more important question is when did Seattle's front office net guys like Sherman, Mebane, Thomas, Irvin, and other players on defense, etc?

 

Which brings us back to the original point I made, which is that Bradley isn't a "make the team better" coach, he's a "get repeatedly blown out by other bottom feeders until he's got elite talent" coach.

 

I know there was a lot of sunshine pumping going on during the offseason about how great free agents want to play for Bradley because he's so great. Anyone still pushing that?

I guess now that Henne is not playing the ire must turn elsewhere. Typical.

Quote:The whole Bradley - Carroll argument in SEA is tricky. I think the more important question is when did Seattle's front office net guys like Sherman, Mebane, Thomas, Irvin, and other players on defense, etc?

 

 

On the morning of January 9, 2010, Carroll reportedly came to agreement with the Seahawks on a 5-year contract that would appoint him as head coach.[66] He was officially hired as the Seahawks head coach on January 11.[42] He was also named executive vice president of football operations, effectively making him the Seahawks' general manager as well. While the Seahawks have a general manager in John Schneider, he serves mainly in an advisory role to<strong> Carroll, who has the final say in football matters. In fact, Schneider was actually hired by Carroll—a rare case of the head coach hiring the general manager. He is one of four current NFL coaches who also have the title or powers of general manager, along with the Patriots' Bill Belichick, Philadelphia Eagles' Chip Kelly and the Kansas City Chiefs' Andy Reid.</strong>

 

In his first season, Carroll almost completely overturned the Seahawks roster, totaling over 200 transactions in the course of only one season. However, these moves paved the way for a 4–2 start to the 2010 season. Although Seattle faltered through the latter half of the season, the team beat the division rival Rams in the final week of the regular season for the NFC West championship, becoming the first 7–9 team in NFL history to win a division title. Carroll made even more history as the Seahawks later upset the then-Super Bowl Champions New Orleans Saints during the wild card round of the playoffs, behind Marshawn Lynch and the famed Beast Quake. However, they then fell to the Chicago Bears, whom they had defeated earlier in the season.

Quote:Why does that matter? It is Bradley's system that he used in Seattle. Babich is just the guy running it.

 

It is Carroll's system that he used in Seattle. Bradley was just the guy running it.

 

 

To be honest I am not really worried about who's defense it is, at the very least Bradley has the blue print and just needs the personnel to execute. 

Bradley's advocates could easily argue that Seattle's defense fell apart when Gus left.  :woot:

Quote:Bradley's advocates could easily argue that Seattle's defense fell apart when Gus left.

 

Yeah, they were horrible last year.

Quote:But why are we talking about the chiefs and niners when those rosters where loaded prior to Harbaugh and Reid?

 

Because the previous coaches couldn't win with those loaded rosters.


 

This shows that coaching can make a big difference.

Quote:Because the previous coaches couldn't win with those loaded rosters.


This shows that coaching can make a big difference.

I don't think anyone has said coaching doesn't. I do think most people are saying that he doesn't have players and hasn't had enough time to acquire them.