Quote:Our defense could get to that level if we suck for long enough. That is basically what SF and SEA did. They were horrible for so long and stockpiled a ton of top 15 talent in every draft.
Building a team to be smaller and quicker (which is basically what Prisco is saying) is a dumb move. You draft studs like Pat Willis and Earl Thomas. End of story.
SF did draft some great players like VD, Willis, Aldon Smith and A. Davis with their top 15 picks from 2005-11, I can give you that. And they also found Gore and Navorro Bowman in 3rd round. But still, they did almost nothing with that talent until Jim Harbaugh come in 3 years ago.
As for the Hawks: from 2003 we only missed playoffs three times (2008, 2009 and 2011), so we didn't have a lot of top 15 picks to collect talent like 49ers did. Our only top 5 pick in last 15 years was Aaron Curry in 2009, who as you probably know was a big bust and is already retired.
But everything that happened before 2010 doesn't really matter now, because we currently only have 2 players (center Max Unger and punter Jon Ryan) on roster from pre-Carroll era. Red Bryant was the third one. None of them were selected in 1st round.
Yes, we did have two top 15 picks in 2010 in Carroll's first year. We select Russell Okung with "our" No. 6 pick and then Earl Thomas with No. 14 (we get this pick a year before from the Broncos for our 2009 2nd round pick). And then in 2012 we get Bruce Irvin with No. 15 pick (original No.12). Of course ET is our best and most important player on defense and Irvin is a solid player, but I don't think that qualifies for sucking for long time and stockpiling high draft picks.
Still, having regularly top 15 (or even top 10 or top 5) picks doesn't always work well. Just ask Browns or Rams fans. They did draft some good to great players, but were not in playoffs in last 10 years.
Quote:I just listened to Jaguars Monday , and Prisco mentioned something interesting. A lot of us assumed the Jaguars are being built in the mold of the Seahawks. But are they? And should they?
Prisco sees Bortles' upside as being higher than Russel Wilson and that the Jaguars should be building around him and not around a defense/running game. What I think he means is basically draft offense based around the passing game, and draft defense based on having a lead and defending the pass, and retain players with those same principals.
Which leads me to Caldwell. His history is generally of offensive teams built around franchise quarterbacks. He has no ties to Seattle and the way their team was built, so why would that be his model in the first place? I don't think Caldwell is trying to build another Seattle Seahawks. I think he's building the team based on Colts/Hawks model.
So why hire a defensive-minded coach? My theory is that he expects to have more talent on the offensive side, and expects his quarterback to almost be the coach of the offense, and expects to retain players based moreso on the passing game. Having a defensive minded coach (if that's even a thing) makes sense when your team is built so that that side of the ball will need the most coaching. In other words someone who can keep developing cheap talent (which is what he's done in Seattle).
He's not doing it right... :thumbsup:
The Defense is a joke they couldnt stop Blaine Gabbert from throwing all over this Defense for example... I am hoping that we see improvement versus the Steelers but right now the glaring weakness is the Defense!
Quote:SF did draft some great players like VD, Willis, Aldon Smith and A. Davis with their top 15 picks from 2005-11, I can give you that. And they also found Gore and Navorro Bowman in 3rd round. But still, they did almost nothing with that talent until Jim Harbaugh come in 3 years ago.
As for the Hawks: from 2003 we only missed playoffs three times (2008, 2009 and 2011), so we didn't have a lot of top 15 picks to collect talent like 49ers did. Our only top 5 pick in last 15 years was Aaron Curry in 2009, who as you probably know was a big bust and is already retired.
But everything that happened before 2010 doesn't really matter now, because we currently only have 2 players (center Max Unger and punter Jon Ryan) on roster from pre-Carroll era. Red Bryant was the third one. None of them were selected in 1st round.
Yes, we did have two top 15 picks in 2010 in Carroll's first year. We select Russell Okung with "our" No. 6 pick and then Earl Thomas with No. 14 (we get this pick a year before from the Broncos for our 2009 2nd round pick). And then in 2012 we get Bruce Irvin with No. 15 pick (original No.12). Of course ET is our best and most important player on defense and Irvin is a solid player, but I don't think that qualifies for sucking for long time and stockpiling high draft picks.
Still, having regularly top 15 (or even top 10 or top 5) picks doesn't always work well. Just ask Browns or Rams fans. They did draft some good to great players, but were not in playoffs in last 10 years.
Obviously you have to hit on those picks. You can't go all Al Davis and whiff on every pick. Bottom line, if you pick high in the draft enough years.. odds are your team starts to get good.
I think the Browns are starting to turn a corner. At least their offensive line is really good.
The seahawks are not who we thought they were!!
Quote:I think you just draft good football players. Don't get into this crap about "building a team that plays with the lead". How did that work out for the Colts? They got ONE... just ONE championship with that philosophy mostly because their defense was garbage. Plus in the year they won, the NFC didn't field a capable team.
Just one?!?
Nobody caught that?
I'd be ecstatic to be in the super bowl.
Let alone win it...
:/
Quote:Just one?!?
Nobody caught that?
I'd be ecstatic to be in the super bowl.
Let alone win it...
:/
so you want to model our defense after that Colts defense? Ok. Not me. They sucked and were soft for forever.
also, this whole point by Prisco is just non sense. I don't think anybody assumed that our offense was being molded to look like the Seahawks. I think its logical to assume our DEFENSE will attempt to be like them, but our offense is a completely different thing. We don't need to build our defense around our offense. That doesn't really make sense. You build your defense to be good. Anything more is really just over thinking it.
Quote:so you want to model our defense after that Colts defense? Ok. Not me. They sucked and were soft for forever.
also, this whole point by Prisco is just non sense. I don't think anybody assumed that our offense was being molded to look like the Seahawks. I think its logical to assume our DEFENSE will attempt to be like them, but our offense is a completely different thing. We don't need to build our defense around our offense. That doesn't really make sense. You build your defense to be good. Anything more is really just over thinking it.
I was talking about the identity and the makeup of the team and the roster. I wasn't talking about offensive and defensive schemes.
Quote:I was talking about the identity and the makeup of the team and the roster. I wasn't talking about offensive and defensive schemes.
You said Prisco was saying Bortles is better than Russel Wilson, so people are wrong to assume that we are building our team around our defense and running game like Seattle. Right?
My point is that he is making a false assumption. People do not expect us to turn our offense into a power running game. However, because we are not designing our offense to be just like Seattle, that doesn't mean our defense wont attempt to mirror what they do.
Quote:You said Prisco was saying Bortles is better than Russel Wilson, so people are wrong to assume that we are building our team around our defense and running game like Seattle. Right?
My point is that he is making a false assumption. People do not expect us to turn our offense into a power running game. However, because we are not designing our offense to be just like Seattle, that doesn't mean our defense wont attempt to mirror what they do.
It somewhat goes hand in hand that a great defense needs a running game to close out games, so that's the assumption I'm making there. I do think they tried to be a power running team this season due to the QB situation ,and expected Gerhart to be that guy, but it just hasn't worked so far.
I wish we would stop with the Seahawks comparison. Just because we got their Defensive coordinator, doesn't make us Seahawks East. It's ridiculous to look at them and think we are going to be them in a few years. Bortles is not Russell Wilson. Our secondary is not theirs. Let's stop comparing the two teams. It's OK to just be the Jaguars. We don't have to build it one way.
And my statement saying Bortles is not Russell Wilson is not a knock on Bortles. They are different players. I think Bortles can be better than Wilson. They just don't play the same way.
I wouldn't put any stock in what Pete Prisco says about the Seahawks. He is a well documented hater over at Seahawks.Net for over a decade. Before last season, he ranked Pete Carroll the 15th best coach in the league. Fif-teenth. Here he is on Brock and Salk trying to defend it.
http://mynorthwest.com/422/2318523/Prisc...aches-list
Quote:I wish we would stop with the Seahawks comparison. Just because we got their Defensive coordinator, doesn't make us Seahawks East. It's ridiculous to look at them and think we are going to be them in a few years. Bortles is not Russell Wilson. Our secondary is not theirs. Let's stop comparing the two teams. It's OK to just be the Jaguars. We don't have to build it one way.
we play the same exact scheme as them
Quote:Hurns catches the ball with his body. Julio has giant man hands that he snatches the ball with. Robinson is closer to Julio than Hurns.
That catch that Hurns LUCKILY managed to hang on to near the end zone exemplifies what is wrong with catching the ball with your body. You can get away with it on short passes; but sooner or later it's gonna cost you on a long pass.
I still think that there is a lot more right with this franchise than wrong. It's going to take some time to get depth. Last year's Seahawks team was one of the deepest I have ever seen That's what made Pete Carroll's mantra of competition work. Actually taking time to develop players. It might be ugly now, but it is going to pay off. Trust me on this. I have seen it.
Besides, if the season continues like this, the Jags are going to be in a great position to trade down.
Quote:I still think that there is a lot more right with this franchise than wrong. It's going to take some time to get depth. Last year's Seahawks team was one of the deepest I have ever seen That's what made Pete Carroll's mantra of competition work. Actually taking time to develop players. It might be ugly now, but it is going to pay off. Trust me on this. I have seen it.
Besides, if the season continues like this, the Jags are going to be in a great position to trade down.
So we're tanking to trade down?
What matra would that be?
I have to laugh at people that say we are "molding" this team like another team.
Theres no scheme as to how to build a successful NFL team, people try desperately to think there is one, but it's really not that complicated.
You draft really good football players. End of equation.
Good God yall sure can confuse me with who we are trying to build ourselves after.
Can we just mold the team into the Jacksonville Jaguars? Not the Jacksonville Seahawks, or Atlanta Jaguars.
Quote:Good God yall sure can confuse me with who we are trying to build ourselves after.
Can we just mold the team into the Jacksonville Jaguars? Not the Jacksonville Seahawks, or Atlanta Jaguars.
Exactly. We havd a similar defensive scheme. That's it. That's where it ends. Even that will evolve into its own identity as more talent is acquired. I'm so over all the Seattle comparison.
I'm sure Caldwell has his own vision for building the team and it starts with just acquiring talented football players.