Quote:I thought it was pretty common knowledge that it can take awhile for WRs to figure it out at the next level. They'll start to get it later in the year. Sucks for the QB.
You'd think after 20 seasons of NFL football in this town that certain segment of the fan base would have at least an NFL 101 level education to understand what is conventional wisdom to the rest of the league. But, as we see here pretty much all the time, some folks either can't or won't get it.
Quote:I didn't hear the quote, so I don't know if PFT is reporting on it accurately, but assuming they are, Bradley singled out three receivers; Lee, Robinson, and Hurns. Interestingly, Mike Brown, who proceeded to drop every pass thrown to him last Sunday, was not mentioned by Bradley (again, assuming PFT isn't misrepresenting Gus' words).
I think that the lack of Brown in Gus' comments is telling, because Brown is a converted QB. Sullivan's main job with him should be, and most likely is, to make sure he catches the ball. Brown struggled last Sunday and has been, generally, inconsistent this year (pre-season through today) with catching the ball. Yet, he was specifically omitted from Gus' criticism.
I think that indicates that Gus isn't as upset with the coaching as he is with the three rookies. If Gus' comments were directed towards the coach, I imagine he wouldn't have named every active WR, but the one who seems to be visibly struggling with picking up the coach's teachings. This idea makes sense in my head, but I'm not sure I'm conveying it appropriately... Do you understand where I'm going with this?
Also, as one last disclaimer, this whole post is predicated on the idea that PFT isn't misrepresenting Gus' words, and Gus really did single out Lee, Robinson, and Hurns, while omitting Brown.
Good points all around.
I agree that from his comments, Gus isn't upset with the coaches. But shouldn't he be?
Regarding Brown''s drops, in another post I mentioned Hurns' dropped TD. I would categorize a drop as a mental mistake, wouldn't you?
I guess Gus doesn't think a drop is a mental mistake?
Do you consider a drop a mental mistake?
It's a mistake, but not as bad as a wrong route run, and I put it on the same level as a missed block.
Drops and missed blocks seldom lead to turnovers.
Wrong routes can directly lead to turnovers or to the qb holding the ball too long then getting sacked or worse, fumbling ad he's sacked...
It's on the GM for having to start 3 rookie WR's. Injuries and Suspensions are excuses. If we were that thin with "veteran" WR's, maybe there's an issue with the roster build?
Quote:Thats called excuse making to buy more time for henne.. did they think starting a roster stacked with rookies was going to yield a perfectly ran offense?
I always love this argument, and it usually comes from those who don't bother to use much thought in their responses. Anything that explains issues the team is having is defined as "excuses" with you and others of your ilk. Don't ever change.
Quote:It's on the GM for having to start 3 rookie WR's. Injuries and Suspensions are excuses. If we were that thin with "veteran" WR's, maybe there's an issue with the roster build?
Wait, so the GM is supposed to anticipate injuries to key players in advance and make sure he's got a stockpile of veterans to make sure we don't have to start 3 rookies? Is he supposed to anticipate that Ace Sanders gets suspended? He inherited Blackmon and his issues, so should he be held accountable for that too?
There's probably more of an issue with fan expectation than the roster build.
Quote:Good points all around.
I agree that from his comments, Gus isn't upset with the coaches. But shouldn't he be?
Regarding Brown''s drops, in another post I mentioned Hurns' dropped TD. I would categorize a drop as a mental mistake, wouldn't you?
I guess Gus doesn't think a drop is a mental mistake?
Do you consider a drop a mental mistake?
I don't think Gus singled out individual players with his comments. As far as being upset with coaches, I think Jerry Sullivan's track record speaks for itself, and I doubt that's the issue here. The reality is that historically rookie receivers have a tendency to struggle as they adjust to the NFL. There are certainly exceptions, but for the most part, they tend to have a steeper learning curve than many other positions.
When some here were suggesting we should trade away Shorts because we were going to be fine trotting rookies and untested veterans out there, those of us who disagreed were shredded by that same group for wanting to cling to players who had trade value. The reality is, our concern was exactly what we're seeing today. Now, nobody can anticipate injuries or suspensions impacting your most experienced veterans, but we're seeing exactly why there was a legitimate concern about going with a rookie corps this year.
If a football hits the receiver in the hands and they don't haul it in, that's definitely a mental error in my book. Whether the receiver was thinking about what comes next and didn't focus on hauling the ball in, or he was distracted by something happening around him, if he's not catching a pass that he SHOULD catch, and it's not a great defensive play to knock the pass away, that's a mental error.
Quote:Wait, so the GM is supposed to anticipate injuries to key players in advance and make sure he's got a stockpile of veterans to make sure we don't have to start 3 rookies? Is he supposed to anticipate that Ace Sanders gets suspended? He inherited Blackmon and his issues, so should he be held accountable for that too?
There's probably more of an issue with fan expectation than the roster build.
If we were thin enough that losing 2 WR's would necessitate starting 3 rookies, is that a high expectation to maybe be prepared for it?
Another thing... Having a 7 year vet at QB should be lessening these type of 'mistakes'.
Quote:Wait, so the GM is supposed to anticipate injuries to key players in advance and make sure he's got a stockpile of veterans to make sure we don't have to start 3 rookies? Is he supposed to anticipate that Ace Sanders gets suspended? He inherited Blackmon and his issues, so should he be held accountable for that too?
There's probably more of an issue with fan expectation than the roster build.
Unbelievable. Does Cecil Shorts get hurt every year and has a history of concussions? Was the team informed of the pending suspension for Ace Sanders before free agency? I may be wrong on that one but think they were informed just like the Browns were regarding Gordon. Knowing those things should tell you to go get some veteren help at the position with all this money that's always talked about.
Quote:It's on the GM for having to start 3 rookie WR's. Injuries and Suspensions are excuses. If we were that thin with "veteran" WR's, maybe there's an issue with the roster build?
So when does pure talent factor into the equation? Should we keep a less talented veteran over a more talented rookie on the roster for the sake of having experience?
What about injuries?
Quote:Unbelievable. Does Cecil Shorts get hurt every year and has a history of concussions? Was the team informed of the pending suspension for Ace Sanders before free agency? I may be wrong on that one but think they were informed just like the Browns were regarding Gordon. Knowing those things should tell you to go get some veteren help at the position with all this money that's always talked about.
Did they not try to sign Emanuel Sanders? Did they sign Tandon Doss?
Quote:Unbelievable. Does Cecil Shorts get hurt every year and has a history of concussions? Was the team informed of the pending suspension for Ace Sanders before free agency? I may be wrong on that one but think they were informed just like the Browns were regarding Gordon. Knowing those things should tell you to go get some veteren help at the position with all this money that's always talked about.
This team did go out and get "veteren" help. Doss was signed, and they did attempt to land additional help unsuccessfully. They also had two veterans on the roster already they continue to have high expectations for this year. Shorts has gotten hurt quite a bit, but if you look at the number of games he's actually missed, it's not as huge a deficit as some want to portray it here. You can pretty much rely on him for 10-12 games a season, which still isn't great, but it's better than 0, especially with a young group.
Quote:If we were thin enough that losing 2 WR's would necessitate starting 3 rookies, is that a high expectation to maybe be prepared for it?
They've lost 2 veteran receivers to injury, and 2 to suspensions. How many receivers do you suggest they carry on the roster? 15?
Seriously, nobody was clamoring or concerned about the WR corps even if we planned to go with 3 rookies until the past week or so when it's become clear that the inexperience is at least part of the reason why this offense is struggling. Anyone who DID express any concern with getting rid of the most experienced veteran on the roster was shouted down. All of a sudden people are concerned about the inexperience when prior to the start of the season, many of those same posters were trying to come up with trade scenarios to get rid of Shorts because we didn't need him based on the draft and rookie free agency.
Perhaps the WR's might look better with a different QB.
Quote:Perhaps the WR's might look better with a different QB.
Or they'll look better with experience.
Or both.
Time will tell.
"The receivers aren't getting open"
"They're running the wrong routes"
Both excuses we have used for every bad QB we've had since Brunell.
Quote:"The receivers aren't getting open"
"They're running the wrong routes"
Both excuses we have used for every bad QB we've had since Brunell.
You forgot the ever popular "They're dropping too many balls".
Quote:"The receivers aren't getting open"
"They're running the wrong routes"
Both excuses we have used for every bad QB we've had since Brunell.
Quote:You forgot the ever popular "They're dropping too many balls".
Can you honestly say we've had any reliable receivers outside of a declining Jimmy Smith since Brunell left?
If so, name them.
Quote:Can you honestly say we've had any reliable receivers outside of a declining Jimmy Smith since Brunell left?
If so, name them.
Reggie Williams....no wait.....Matt Jones......no wait.....Jerry Porter.....
We haven't had a good WR since Jimmy Smith or a good QB since Mark Brunell. There's an awful lot of positions that we haven't had good players at for more than a decade.