Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

With Kubiak retiring and Wade Phillips contract set to expire, Wade is going to be a coaching free agent. Whoever we hire as HC, I don't care what it takes, we need to get this guy in Jacksonville as DC.

Been saying this over the past few days

I dont think he's interested in being a HC

Quote:I dont think he's interested in being a HC

The interest we're talking about is as a DC

Quote:With Kubiak retiring and Wade Phillips contract set to expire, Wade is going to be a coaching free agent. Whoever we hire as HC, I don't care what it takes, we need to get this guy in Jacksonville as DC.

I am not particularly thrilled about this team switching to a 3-4.

 

However, the idea of Ngakoue rushing from OLB in a Wade Phillips defense is appealing to say the least.

Quote:I am not particularly thrilled about this team switching to a 3-4.

 

However, the idea of Ngakoue rushing from OLB in a Wade Phillips defense is appealing to say the least.

 

I'm curious as to why? For the most part, our personnel would fit a 3-4 scheme just fine.

Quote:I'm curious as to why? For the most part, our personnel would fit a 3-4 scheme just fine.

1.  I don't think our personnel fits a 3-4 just fine.  I don't think we have the LBs for it.  Telvin Smith and Jack would have to be replaced right off the bat.  Poz did not work well in the 3-4 when he was up in Buffalo and he had a stud NT in front of him-something we wouldn't have here this year, barring a signing of Dontari Poe.  The best case scenario would be a blitzing 3-4 scheme that would utilize Ngakoue and Fowler as OLBs, but that still wouldn't address the middle of the defense.

 

2.  I think historically, the most dominant defenses in NFL history have been 4-3 schemes.

 

3.  3-4 defenses are typically size dependent, and historically have not fared well without a huge DLs (NTs in particular) and big LBs.

Quote:1.  I don't think our personnel fits a 3-4 just fine.  I don't think we have the LBs for it.  Telvin Smith and Jack would have to be replaced right off the bat.  Poz did not work well in the 3-4 when he was up in Buffalo and he had a stud NT in front of him-something we wouldn't have here this year, barring a signing of Dontari Poe.  The best case scenario would be a blitzing 3-4 scheme that would utilize Ngakoue and Fowler as OLBs, but that still wouldn't address the middle of the defense.

 

2.  I think historically, the most dominant defenses in NFL history have been 4-3 schemes.

 

3.  3-4 defenses are typically size dependent, and historically have not fared well without a huge DLs (NTs in particular) and big LBs.

 

1. I firmly disagree on Jack fitting a 3-4 defense. He's a freak of nature in terms of physique and I believe he can play any linebacker spot in a 4-3 and inside just fine in a 3-4. Telvin is interesting one, but I think he could make the transition to an inside backer mainly due to your last sentence in your first point. We'd likely use Fowler and Ngakoue as OLBs, so we could be blitz heavily and shade Telvin more towards the weak side.

 

2. That's a fair point, though to be fair the 3-4 is a more modern approach, so it doesn't have the same history. Of the more recent historically good defenses, I'd say it's fairly even with current Denver as well as the late 90s-early 2000s Baltimore and Pittsburgh defenses running 34 schemes.

 

3. We have a lot of capable big guys currently on the roster (Jackson, Odrick, Marks, Miller, Jones, Day, Alualu) though we do lack a giant nose tackle. I do think Miller (325lbs) and Jones (320lbs) can hold up as NTs in a 3-4 though since they're by no means small. Odrick and Jackson have both played as DEs in the 3-4 scheme too. Not to mention the decent possibility of adding another one in Alabama's Jonathan Allen though the draft.

Quote:I dont think he's interested in being a HC

Quote:With Kubiak retiring and Wade Phillips contract set to expire, Wade is going to be a coaching free agent. Whoever we hire as HC, I don't care what it takes, we need to get this guy in Jacksonville as DC.

Quote:1. I firmly disagree on Jack fitting a 3-4 defense. He's a freak of nature in terms of physique and I believe he can play any linebacker spot in a 4-3 and inside just fine in a 3-4. Telvin is interesting one, but I think he could make the transition to an inside backer mainly due to your last sentence in your first point. We'd likely use Fowler and Ngakoue as OLBs, so we could be blitz heavily and shade Telvin more towards the weak side.

 

2. That's a fair point, though to be fair the 3-4 is a more modern approach, so it doesn't have the same history. Of the more recent historically good defenses, I'd say it's fairly even with current Denver as well as the late 90s-early 2000s Baltimore and Pittsburgh defenses running 34 schemes.

 

3. We have a lot of capable big guys currently on the roster (Jackson, Odrick, Marks, Miller, Jones, Day, Alualu) though we do lack a giant nose tackle. I do think Miller (325lbs) and Jones (320lbs) can hold up as NTs in a 3-4 though since they're by no means small. Odrick and Jackson have both played as DEs in the 3-4 scheme too. Not to mention the decent possibility of adding another one in Alabama's Jonathan Allen though the draft.

1.  I agree in terms of athletic ability, Jack is a freak.  But I think that athletic ability is best utilized in a scheme that doesn't have him head up on a TE or T.  That was one of the reasons he didn't get much playing time at OTTO.  The team would take him out on those run downs.  If you put him at LOLB in a 3-4, you would have that all over again, and while he has the speed and agility, I don't think he has the length to be an effective pass rushing LOLB.  Furthermore, putting Jack at LOLB  makes Fowler a question mark.  I also think Jack's athletic ability is mitigated when he has to take on guards, a certainty in a 3-4.  That effect is exacerbated with Telvin Smith.

 

2.  That Ravens D of 2000 was a 4-3, not a 3-4.  Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa were the DTs, and Michael McCray and Rob Burnett were the DEs.  Those huge DTs allowed Ray Lewis to roam free at MLB.  A few years later, circa 2003, they transitioned to a 3-4.  As far as the contemporary nature of the schemes, Seattle and the Giants went to multiple Super Bowls with a 4-3 scheme, and Belicheck, a former 3-4 guy with the Giants, Cleveland, and New England, has transitioned his scheme to a 4-3 in recent years.

 

3.  Roy Miller is not 325.  [url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MillRo99.htm%C2][/url]

Quote:1. I agree in terms of athletic ability, Jack is a freak. But I think that athletic ability is best utilized in a scheme that doesn't have him head up on a TE or T. That was one of the reasons he didn't get much playing time at OTTO. The team would take him out on those run downs. If you put him at LOLB in a 3-4, you would have that all over again, and while he has the speed and agility, I don't think he has the length to be an effective pass rushing LOLB. Furthermore, putting Jack at LOLB makes Fowler a question mark. I also think Jack's athletic ability is mitigated when he has to take on guards, a certainty in a 3-4. That effect is exacerbated with Telvin Smith.


2. That Ravens D of 2000 was a 4-3, not a 3-4. Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa were the DTs, and Michael McCray and Rob Burnett were the DEs. Those huge DTs allowed Ray Lewis to roam free at MLB. A few years later, circa 2003, they transitioned to a 3-4. As far as the contemporary nature of the schemes, Seattle and the Giants went to multiple Super Bowls with a 4-3 scheme, and Belicheck, a former 3-4 guy with the Giants, Cleveland, and New England, has transitioned his scheme to a 4-3 in recent years.


3. Roy Miller is not 325.

According to NFL.com Miller is 318. And he's plenty capable of playing heavier if asked. Arby'Jones is also 318 according to NFL.com and like Miller has the frame to play heavier if asked.

Here is a good article explaining the various approaches to the 3-4.

 

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...ront/?_r=0

 

Another good read...

 

http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/3/24/13...-4-defense

I'm curious if Wade would be willing to introduce a hybrid 3-4 look similar to how the Steelers and Patriots play?


Edit: on second thought he has done exactly that in his past few years in Denver.

Quote:I'm curious if Wade would be willing to introduce a hybrid 3-4 look similar to how the Steelers and Patriots play?


Edit: on second thought he has done exactly that in his past few years in Denver.

http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/...ose-tackle

The thing is no matter what defense you play, the majority of the time you will have 4 guys on the dline.

Quote:<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/13487/broncos-new-defense-still-needs-solution-at-nose-tackle'>http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/13487/broncos-new-defense-still-needs-solution-at-nose-tackle</a>

Yep. Flexibility. So refreshing.

Quote:1.  I agree in terms of athletic ability, Jack is a freak.  But I think that athletic ability is best utilized in a scheme that doesn't have him head up on a TE or T.  That was one of the reasons he didn't get much playing time at OTTO.  The team would take him out on those run downs.  If you put him at LOLB in a 3-4, you would have that all over again, and while he has the speed and agility, I don't think he has the length to be an effective pass rushing LOLB.  Furthermore, putting Jack at LOLB  makes Fowler a question mark.  I also think Jack's athletic ability is mitigated when he has to take on guards, a certainty in a 3-4.  That effect is exacerbated with Telvin Smith.

 

2.  That Ravens D of 2000 was a 4-3, not a 3-4.  Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa were the DTs, and Michael McCray and Rob Burnett were the DEs.  Those huge DTs allowed Ray Lewis to roam free at MLB.  A few years later, circa 2003, they transitioned to a 3-4.  As far as the contemporary nature of the schemes, Seattle and the Giants went to multiple Super Bowls with a 4-3 scheme, and Belicheck, a former 3-4 guy with the Giants, Cleveland, and New England, has transitioned his scheme to a 4-3 in recent years.

 

3.  Roy Miller is not 325. 

 

Jack would strictly be a inside linebacker in a 3-4. Also I don't believe Jack being taken off of the field on run downs to be an indictment of his play on against the run. This staff had a loyalty to Skuta to the point that he's regularly had more snaps than Jack and anyways he is a pretty good run defender. I'd say Jack has generally played well against the run when given the opportunity, aside from bitting on a few counters, though I chalk those up to being a rookie and learning the game than him not being good in run support.

 

My mistake on the early era of Baltimore's dominant defense. I blanked on Marvin Lewis being there before Mike Nolan and Rex Ryan. Though since 2000, both Pittsburgh and New England (while under Crennel and Pees) won multiple Super Bowls while using a 3-4. Green Bay won their only championship once Capers came in and switched their defense while Baltimore won their second title under a 3-4. I think you can win championships under both styles of defense. Also just to reference this particular year, the top 10 defenses in both yardage and points allowed are each split evenly (5-5) between 43 and 34 defenses.

 

Roy Miller is listed at 318, not 325, but assuming he completely comes back from his injury, I think can handle a zero gap just fine.

 

Anyways, I just wanted to add that I too would rather stick with a 4-3 over a 3-4 since I do prefer that style of scheme. However, if we had the opportunity to bring in someone like Wade Phillips to lead our defense, I wouldn't hesitate to make the transition as I think by and large we have the personnel to do so.

Quote:Jack would strictly be a inside linebacker in a 3-4. Also I don't believe Jack being taken off of the field on run downs to be an indictment of his play on against the run. This staff had a loyalty to Skuta to the point that he's regularly had more snaps than Jack and anyways he is a pretty good run defender. I'd say Jack has generally played well against the run when given the opportunity, aside from bitting on a few counters, though I chalk those up to being a rookie and learning the game than him not being good in run support.

 

My mistake on the early era of Baltimore's dominant defense. I blanked on Marvin Lewis being there before Mike Nolan and Rex Ryan. Though since 2000, both Pittsburgh and New England (while under Crennel and Pees) won multiple Super Bowls while using a 3-4. Green Bay won their only championship once Capers came in and switched their defense while Baltimore won their second title under a 3-4. I think you can win championships under both styles of defense. Also just to reference this particular year, the top 10 defenses in both yardage and points allowed are each split evenly (5-5) between 43 and 34 defenses.

 

Roy Miller is listed at 318, not 325, but assuming he completely comes back from his injury, I think can handle a zero gap just fine.

 

Anyways, I just wanted to add that I too would rather stick with a 4-3 over a 3-4 since I do prefer that style of scheme. However, if we had the opportunity to bring in someone like Wade Phillips to lead our defense, I wouldn't hesitate to make the transition as I think by and large we have the personnel to do so.

I will say this.

 

If the new coach allows Wade Phillips to leave, that organization would be making a huge mistake.  I would say he is perhaps the best 3-4 coordinator.

You have to comit to drafting LB's year in and year out to fit a 3-4.  The year we tried it under JDR we scrapped it pretty quick.  I think we need to scheme up our 4-3 better and stop pounding square peg talent into round hole schemes.

Wade Phillips indicated that his preference is to remain with the Denver Broncos.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...nemployed/