Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Personally, I think it's a good decision. Time will tell if he sticks to his word about not sending in anymore ground troops to Iraq though. This group needs dealt with.

We created ISIS by arming them to take on Assad. There's no good options left at this point.

Not our fight

Quote:We created ISIS by arming them to take on Assad. There's no good options left at this point.

 

We created this by creating a void with a faulty invasion plan and no real viable postwar strategy. Like Colin Powell said, we broke it, we own it.

Quote:We created this by creating a void with a faulty invasion plan and no real viable postwar strategy. Like Colin Powell said, we broke it, we own it.

 

No arguments here, it's gone from bad to worse and is almost a perfect example of why Ron Paul is right when he says we should just stay out of it.

Quote:We created this by creating a void with a faulty invasion plan and no real viable postwar strategy. Like Colin Powell said, we broke it, we own it.

 

Yep, the echoes of the stupidity of the worst president the US ever had (Dubya) are still reverberating, and will be for a long time yet.


He destabilized one of the most crucial regions on the planet while simultaneously nosediving the American economy.

 

It still blows my mind that he got two terms.

Quote:Yep, the echoes of the stupidity of the worst president the US ever had (Dubya) are still reverberating, and will be for a long time yet.

He destabilized one of the most crucial regions on the planet while simultaneously nosediving the American economy.

 

It still blows my mind that he got two terms.

Worst president the US has ever had was not George W. Bush.  It was James Buchanan.  Dubya isn't even the worst recent president, with Jimmy Carter taking that title.  FDR would be up there too if he had lived longer.  In fact I think FDR would have eventually brought the downfall of this country.  But his legacy (propped up by World War II) has made him look far better than what would have been if he had lived a lot longer.

Quote:Worst president the US has ever had was not George W. Bush.  It was James Buchanan.  Dubya isn't even the worst recent president, with Jimmy Carter taking that title.  FDR would be up there too if he had lived longer.  In fact I think FDR would have eventually brought the downfall of this country.  But his legacy (propped up by World War II) has made him look far better than what would have been if he had lived a lot longer.

 

No, Dubya was definitely the worst.

 

There were significant limits to the level of national damage presidents could do ~200 years ago.

 

That you think FDR (possibly in the top 5 greatest presidents) is in the running for the worst really tells me all I need to know about your perspective on this.

Buchanan did significant damage to the nation.

 

And FDR was in no way a Top 5 President.  The man tried to stuff the supreme court, and ordered the internment of Japanese Americans.

Quote:Buchanan did significant damage to the nation.

 

And FDR was in no way a Top 5 President.  The man tried to stuff the supreme court, and ordered the internment of Japanese Americans.

 

Did he order secret torture or CIA spying on the entire nation?

 

Yes, I know about his idea to change the makeup of the supreme court and make all the old guys collectively have a single vote. It was a novel idea that got the judicial branch to finally get out of the way.

 

Also I know the internment camps for Japanese weren't great, but I'd say it was better than what the Japanese were doing to American POWs or the Germans were doing to the Jews they got their hands on.

 

FDR led the nation back from a prior administration that had crashed the economy in true republican style and brought the free world back from the brink of German/Japanese domination.

Quote:Did he order secret torture or CIA spying on the entire nation?

 

Yes, I know about his idea to change the makeup of the supreme court and make all the old guys collectively have a single vote. It was a novel idea that got the judicial branch to finally get out of the way.

 

Also I know the internment camps for Japanese weren't great, but I'd say it was better than what the Japanese were doing to American POWs or the Germans were doing to the Jews they got their hands on.

 

FDR led the nation back from a prior administration that had crashed the economy in true republican style and brought the free world back from the brink of German/Japanese domination.

You mean the spying that continued under Obama?


The internment camps for Japanese 'weren't great'?  They were terrible.  And these weren't prisoners of war.  These were American Citizens.  But hey.  At least we weren't as bad as the Nazis.  Setting the bar very high with that.

People like

 

Quote:Buchanan did significant damage to the nation.

 

And FDR was in no way a Top 5 President.  The man tried to stuff the supreme court, and ordered the internment of Japanese Americans.

People like to forget about one the darkest periods in American history

Quote:You mean the spying that continued under Obama?


The internment camps for Japanese 'weren't great'?  They were terrible.  And these weren't prisoners of war.  These were American Citizens.  But hey.  At least we weren't as bad as the Nazis.  Setting the bar very high with that.

 

Like I said, not great, but compared to what he did right and everything else going on in the world it was insignificant.

 

If Germans had a distinguished look compared to Americans I imagine they probably would have been interned, too. It was war, and it was an intense war for a nation that was only beginning to recover from what the republican administrations of Coolidge and Hoover had wrought.

 

As for Obama continuing the spying, I didn't say he gets a free pass, but GWB is still worse.

Quote:No, Dubya was definitely the worst.

 

 

 

Spoken like a true lefty. 

 

Anyone who's objective & lived through the Carter administration would disagree. 

 

 

I'm no GWB fan...but he wasn't the worst. 

Quote:People like

 

People like to forget about one the darkest periods in American history

 

I don't know that people like to forget it, but I do think that bit of history is not widely understood. It was certainly not covered in the history classes I took in high school.

Quote:Like I said, not great, but compared to what he did right and everything else going on in the world it was insignificant.

 

If Germans had a distinguished look compared to Americans I imagine they probably would have been interned, too. It was war, and it was an intense war for a nation that was only beginning to recover from what the republican administrations of Coolidge and Hoover had wrought.

 

As for Obama continuing the spying, I didn't say he gets a free pass, but GWB is still worse.

 

So FDR gets a free pass because he happened to live during a time with History's, perhaps, worst villain?


Nevermind that putting citizens in internment camps, no matter how you look at it is worse than spying on them.  

 

 

Quote:<div>
I don't know that people like to forget it, but I do think that bit of history is not widely understood. It was certainly not covered in the history classes I took in high school.


 

</div>
 

It's a period of history that we like to gloss over.  It's sad but true.  It happens in every country -- historical revisionism.  It's worse in some countries.  I was lucky enough to be in a history class that actually went over it.  And my wife, as a history teacher, makes sure to go over it with her US History students.  Because it's important to know -- so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past. 

Quote:Did he order secret torture or CIA spying on the entire nation?

 

Yes, I know about his idea to change the makeup of the supreme court and make all the old guys collectively have a single vote. It was a novel idea that got the judicial branch to finally get out of the way.

 

Also I know the internment camps for Japanese weren't great, but I'd say it was better than what the Japanese were doing to American POWs or the Germans were doing to the Jews they got their hands on.

 

FDR led the nation back from a prior administration that had crashed the economy in true republican style and brought the free world back from the brink of German/Japanese domination.

 

Yeah those Japanese American citizens weren't prisoners of war, they where citizens and thank God we treated them better than the Nazi, gee what a standard to aim for.

Quote:Spoken like a true lefty. 

 

Anyone who's objective & lived through the Carter administration would disagree. 

 

 

I'm no GWB fan...but he wasn't the worst. 

 

I doubt you lived through the Carter administration, and if you did I doubt you were old enough to actually know anything about it at all.

 

In fact going by the lack of intelligence you currently display I'd say you wouldn't have been able to recognize the circumstances even if you did.

 

The economic problems of the 70's were mostly due to reverberations of needed monetary policy changes that were undertaken originally by Nixon as well as Nixon's free trade policies. Of course there was also trouble in the middle east causing an oil embargo on a nation that was addicted to cheap energy.

 

If we'd have continued on Carter's course the world would be a much cleaner, cooler, place today.

Quote:Like I said, not great, but compared to what he did right and everything else going on in the world it was insignificant.

 

If Germans had a distinguished look compared to Americans I imagine they probably would have been interned, too. It was war, and it was an intense war for a nation that was only beginning to recover from what the republican administrations of Coolidge and Hoover had wrought.

 

As for Obama continuing the spying, I didn't say he gets a free pass, but GWB is still worse.

 

You've got to be the most blindly partisan individual I've met yet. If they had a D in front of their name the Spying, bank bailouts, and now interment camps can all be justified or excused.

Quote:I doubt you lived through the Carter administration, and if you did I doubt you were old enough to actually know anything about it at all.

 

In fact going by the lack of intelligence you currently display I'd say you wouldn't have been able to recognize the circumstances even if you did.

 

The economic problems of the 70's were mostly due to reverberations of needed monetary policy changes that were undertaken originally by Nixon as well as Nixon's free trade policies. Of course there was also trouble in the middle east causing an oil embargo on a nation that was addicted to cheap energy.

 

If we'd have continued on Carter's course the world would be a much cleaner, cooler, place today.

 

 

A liberal cannot discuss anything without also giving a personal insult, ever. It generally comes from them not being confident on the argument they side with to stand on its own.