Is Edward Snowden a Patriot for exposing abuses by the federal government or is he a traitor working to undermine American Security?
I'll be curious as to where everyone falls on this one. I'll admit it wasn't clear and dry for even me, yes I had real problems with the stuff he exposed and I'm glad it came to light, I do wonder if there was a better way to do it. I also find curious his running off to Russia while crying about civil liberty abuses of the United States.
I have BIG problems with the wide net approach by the NSA and Homeland Security since 9/11, it's been talked about on "conspiracy sites" about the phone taps and megadata being stored on pretty much everyone but Snowden pretty much blew it out of the water with his exposing documents. Supposedly there's more and I'll admit I want it to come to light, I want to know what's going on and why.
discuss...........
Both.
Some of the information needed to be released. But he should have stopped there.
Quote:Both.
Some of the information needed to be released. But he should have stopped there.
What should he not have released? I'm not sure I can blame the guy for running after releasing the information, I imagine he's facing more than prison probably a death sentence if they ever catch him.
Quote:What should he not have released? I'm not sure I can blame the guy for running after releasing the information, I imagine he's facing more than prison probably a death sentence if they ever catch him.
U.S. Espionage against other countries.
Here's an article I suggest reading:
http://www.businessinsider.com/everybody...den-2013-6
I don't know what to think about it. I do think NSA is doing what they are doing for the right reasons, national security. The means don't always justify the ends however, they have so much power over everyone.
Traitor. He took secure information and gave it to the press and foreign nationals.
Regardless of what good he has done in exposing just how deeply involved our government is in spying not only on enemies and allies, but on all of us, he's still a traitor for doing what he did.
He made people think for a fleeting moment that nerds can be cool.
That is unforgivable.
I wasl kind of "on the fence" when it comes to him. From what we know so far, he exposed some things that I'm not really comfortable about. Government in some ways is over-stepping the bounds when it comes to freedom and privacy in our country.
However, it's more about how it was exposed and how he did it.
First of all, coming from somebody that has served in the military and has still worked for the government in some aspects, we all take an oath. We all play by certain "rules" that the average citizen does not play by. Getting a Clearance from the government means something, and you agree to certain terms regarding that clearance. He broke those rules and terms, so he must suffer the consequences of his actions. As a civilian employee, he may not have raised his hand and taken an oath, but he did sign the paperwork that outlines what his clearance was all about, and the consequences if he broke that "contract".
Also, I question his actions after the initial exposure. He first goes to China then to Russia? Something doesn't add up when it comes to that. My bet is that he gave away more information to "the enemy", and is therefore guilty of treason. If a person doesn't think that Chinese or Russian authorities have not interrogated him and looked at any data that he had in his possession, then they don't really know how this "game" really works.
Another thing to think about, he gained access to this data, and pretty much STOLE it. Anyone that knows anything about holding a clearance knows about "need to know". In his position, he did not have a "need to know" about any of the data that he took. He was an IT guy and his job was to maintain the network, not actually read any of the data.
The bottom line is, the guy needs to face the charges. He is a traitor.
I pretty much assumed all this had been going on for quite a while.I don't like it and think it's pretty despicable be spied on by your own government en masse. I don't think he's either a traitor nor a hero. I think he was a whisteblower. There will always be a need for whisteblowers. Bringing to attention to average Joe American what a lot of people assumed was already going on was a good thing though nothing will likely come from it.
Quote:I pretty much assumed all this had been going on for quite a while.I don't like it and think it's pretty despicable be spied on by your own government en masse. I don't think he's either a traitor nor a hero. I think he was a whisteblower. There will always be a need for whisteblowers. Bringing to attention to average Joe American what a lot of people assumed was already going on was a good thing though nothing will likely come from it.
Kind of my thoughts as well, I can't call the guy a traitor if what he did was expose unconstitutional over reach by the federal government, but at the same time I can't consider him a patriot when he ran off to China and then Russia.
That said if he hadn't ran off to China or Russia and stayed here to face whatever chargers they would bring against him (assuming he wasn't just "taken" out) would that change his standing for anyone?
Quote:Kind of my thoughts as well, I can't call the guy a traitor if what he did was expose unconstitutional over reach by the federal government, but at the same time I can't consider him a patriot when he ran off to China and then Russia.
That said if he hadn't ran off to China or Russia and stayed here to face whatever chargers they would bring against him (assuming he wasn't just "taken" out) would that change his standing for anyone?
I think it would for a small portion of people sure. Most are firmly in the, what he did was treason or he's a hero, camps... I do think it puts a bad light on things that he fled to our" enemies but if we look at it logically it makes sense. Most of our "friends" would have sent him back here an it's not like whistleblowers are treated well by the people the blow the whistle on after all. I understand why he fled where he did but I don't think it makes sense to a lot of people.
Quote:I think it would for a small portion of people sure. Most are firmly in the, what he did was treason or he's a hero, camps... I do think it puts a bad light on things that he fled to our" enemies but if we look at it logically it makes sense. Most of our "friends" would have sent him back here an it's not like whistleblowers are treated well by the people the blow the whistle on after all. I understand why he fled where he did but I don't think it makes sense to a lot of people.
I lean more towards hero than traitor, the stuff he exposed is serious. If no one ever exposes it how do you even begin to resist it?
Quote:I lean more towards hero than traitor, the stuff he exposed is serious. If no one ever exposes it how do you even begin to resist it?
100% agree. I understand the need for various intelligence gathering for national security purposes but to indiscriminately accumulate all manner of data on your own citizens is a gross violation of not just the constitution but what should be considered by all as a basic human right to privacy. At a minimum.
Quote:I lean more towards hero than traitor, the stuff he exposed is serious. If no one ever exposes it how do you even begin to resist it?
I guess I agree with you but I seriously question his motives.
Quote:I guess I agree with you but I seriously question his motives.
Yea his actions afterwards make you question his motives no doubt about that.
Quote:I lean more towards hero than traitor, the stuff he exposed is serious. If no one ever exposes it how do you even begin to resist it?
The problem is that the general public doesn't know how much was exposed and to whom. All that we know is what he gave to the media. What did he give to the Chinese and the Russians? That part is not made public.
Speaking from a more technical point of view, he not only had the data that he stole, he also has knowledge about the computer network(s) that hold this data. That knowledge alone is pretty valuable in the hands of people that may want to spy on us.
Also, plain and simple he knowingly and willfully broke the law by accessing and stealing data that he did not have a NEED TO KNOW. Are we a nation of laws or are we a "nation of laws except"? People entrusted with a security clearance have certain protocol that must be followed. There are other ways that he could have been a "whistle blower" without compromising classified information.
Bottom line, he is a traitor and should face the charges.
If he stayed, he wouldn't have lived long enough to see a trial, they would have put a bullet in his head, and called it suicide from a coward. Leaving was the smartest thing he could have done.
Quote:If he stayed, he wouldn't have lived long enough to see a trial, they would have put a bullet in his head, and called it suicide from a coward. Leaving was the smartest thing he could have done.
Probably same reason he's gone outside us media to get it to the public