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Quote:So how many people on here think this was shot down by secret operatives to try to start a war?

 

I'm seeing a lot of "false flag" talk.

 

Boy that's going to get political real fast, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Quote:But that means you have to accept the argument they know how to operate one of the most sophisticated mobile missile launching systems but don't know how to tell the difference from a commercial flight or military plane. It's just more plausible to me that whoever shot this thing down did it intentionally, anyone that can operate that equipment can tell the difference between a commercial plane and a military plane.

 

I could see if it was low flying and taken down with a shoulder fire rocket like an RPG just aim and fire, but this is a on board programed GPS guided missile system.

 

You're trying to portray these individuals as trained military that would have the proper training to know the difference.  I contend that's not the case here.  It's not really a stretch.

 

I agree that whoever did this did so intentionally.  I just disagree that the Ukraine would have shot down a civilian craft that had zero connection to them other than the airspace it was flying over. 

 

Someone can be trained to utilize this system without being fully versed on identifying their targets.  This is nothing more than a sophisticated version of a shoulder fired rocket with any sort of heat seeking capability. 

Quote:So how many people on here think the plane was shot down by secret operatives to try to start a war?

 

I'm seeing a lot of "false flag" talk.

 

How many people think this plane is the same plane that went "missing"?

 

I don't think it's a false flag situation.  I think it's probably the case of having enough information to be dangerous, but not enough to recognize the risks. 

Quote:Also I think this article is telling http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...000ft.html

 

one of the leaders of the "resistance" even admits if they had a BUK surface to air missle system they didn't have guys that would know how to use it.

 

"

In a statement Donetsk separatist leader Andrei Purgin said that he was certain that Ukrainian troops had shot it down but gave no explanation for that statement.

Purgin said he was not aware of whether rebel forces owned BUK missile launchers, but even if they did, there had no fighters capable of operating it. "

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z37l79C1if

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

I'm sure he's being totally honest here.  There are plenty of accounts confirming they had the BUK system.

Quote:Boy that's going to get political real fast, but I wouldn't rule it out.

 

Here are the facts: an airliner was shot down

 

They just confirmed it was a surface to air missile that took the plane down on Reuters. 

Quote:You're trying to portray these individuals as trained military that would have the proper training to know the difference.  I contend that's not the case here.  It's not really a stretch.

 

I agree that whoever did this did so intentionally.  I just disagree that the Ukraine would have shot down a civilian craft that had zero connection to them other than the airspace it was flying over. 

 

Someone can be trained to utilize this system without being fully versed on identifying their targets.  This is nothing more than a sophisticated version of a shoulder fired rocket with any sort of heat seeking capability. 

 

No way, the BUK system is WAY more complicated then a shoulder fired rocket it requires multiple vehicles to opperate for one. here's some info on it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system

Quote:They just confirmed it was a surface to air missile that took the plane down on Reuters. 

 

ive heard alot of people suggest that the narrative of what shot down the plane was discovered too quickly

 

It is interesting.  I was listening to the news and they knew what kind of SAM it was pretty soon after it happened.  How did they figure it out so fast?  Conspiracy theorists would argue that the narrative was pre-planned to pin it all on Russia and increase tension.

 

Quote:They just confirmed it was a surface to air missile that took the plane down on Reuters. 

 

I don't think anyone doubted it sad this is going to get ugly real fast regardless who did what.

Quote:ive heard alot of people suggest that the narrative of what shot down the plane was discovered too quickly

 

It is interesting.  I was listening to the news and they knew what kind of SAM it was pretty soon after it happened.  How did they figure it out so fast?  Conspiracy theorists would argue that the narrative was pre-planned to pin it all on Russia and increase tension.

 

 

There's a lot about it that stinks I'll say that much.

Quote:You're trying to portray these individuals as trained military that would have the proper training to know the difference.  I contend that's not the case here.  It's not really a stretch.

 

I agree that whoever did this did so intentionally.  I just disagree that the Ukraine would have shot down a civilian craft that had zero connection to them other than the airspace it was flying over. 

 

Someone can be trained to utilize this system without being fully versed on identifying their targets.  This is nothing more than a sophisticated version of a shoulder fired rocket with any sort of heat seeking capability. 

 

I'd be more interested in how they got the equipment. Shoulder fired missiles are one thing, surface to air with the capability to take down cruising airliners is a whole other ball park.

Quote:ive heard alot of people suggest that the narrative of what shot down the plane was discovered too quickly

 

It is interesting.  I was listening to the news and they knew what kind of SAM it was pretty soon after it happened.  How did they figure it out so fast?  Conspiracy theorists would argue that the narrative was pre-planned to pin it all on Russia and increase tension.

 

There's not a lot of systems capable of reaching the cruising altitude of an airliner, if you know what equipment is stationed in the area it's not hard to put two and two together. 

They just reported on the radio that one of the rebel leaders in that area took credit for shooting down a Ukrainian transport plane, then retracted their claim once it became clear it was civilian jet.  They actually posted it on their stinking Facebook page, then deleted it. 

Quote:I'd be more interested in how they got the equipment. Shoulder fired missiles are one thing, surface to air with the capability to take down cruising airliners is a whole other ball park.

 

That is a curious thing.  There are actually reports going back a couple of weeks where they were posting pictures with these missile systems in their possession.  How they got it?  Ask the Russians. 

Quote:They just reported on the radio that one of the rebel leaders in that area took credit for shooting down a Ukrainian transport plane, then retracted their claim once it became clear it was civilian jet.  They actually posted it on their stinking Facebook page, then deleted it. 

 

well than that would be damning evidence.

Quote:I'd be more interested in how they got the equipment. Shoulder fired missiles are one thing, surface to air with the capability to take down cruising airliners is a whole other ball park.

 

It's been long report Russia has supplied them with all kinds of weapon systems.

Quote:well than that would be damning evidence.

Yup.

 

One of the guys I'm listening to was on the ground there and confirmed that these rebels have the BUK missile systems.  He also said they're not well trained, or well educated.  But, the rebels are being trained by Russian special forces, who ARE extremely well trained.

Quote:Yup.

 

One of the guys I'm listening to was on the ground there and confirmed that these rebels have the BUK missile systems.  He also said they're not well trained, or well educated.  But, the rebels are being trained by Russian special forces, who ARE extremely well trained.

 

That is incredibly stupid of Russia, they just placed themselves firmly into a corner if true. It's liken when the US armed these ISIS rebels in Syria then we ended up having them give us trouble in Iraq.

 

Never arm these rebels to do your dirty work it always blows up in your face.

I'm reading conflicting reports that the airliner was mistaken for another aircraft transporting Putin.  I find that hard to believe that Putin would be flying over that area, but whatever.  People come up with all kinds of crazy stuff.

Quote:I'm reading conflicting reports that the airliner was mistaken for another aircraft transporting Putin.  I find that hard to believe that Putin would be flying over that area, but whatever.  People come up with all kinds of crazy stuff.

 

I doubt Putin advertises his flight paths, how would people on the internet even access that information?