Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Rodman's a HOF'er?? yikes.


He was good for that Bulls team when he came over as a free agent, but HOF player? If true, wow. Is that based on actual fame or production?

Rings and rebounds.

Quote:Pippen was an absolute stud. Other then him though, the cast was a bunch of guys.

I disagree. But I guess that's just personal opinion from watching them play. I didn't say he sucked. But I don't think he was a stud.

Quote:I disagree. But I guess that's just personal opinion from watching them play. I didn't say he sucked. But I don't think he was a stud.

I too got to see the glory days of the Bulls championship years with Pippen and Jordan. It was awesome to watch.

 

Pippen easily makes any list of top 50 of all time. Most NBA fans would have him top 25. If that is not elite, stud status then I am not sure what is. One of the best defenders of all time. Always guarded the other team's top perimeter player and more often then not shut them down (see Magic Johnson in 91 Finals)

Scottie Pippen - Hall of Fame, 3 straight 1st team All-NBA first team.

Dennis Rodman - Widely considered one of the best rebounders of all time.

Steve Kerr - Widely considered one of the best shooters of all time.

 

 

The team was built much, much better than any of the Cavs teams with LeBron. Like I said, Anthony Parker and JJ Hickson started 154 out of 162 combined games for the 2010 Cavs. Neither of them would have saw the floor on the 90s Bulls teams. Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong may not have been studs, but they were a heck of a lot better than Anthony Parker and JJ Hickson.

Quote:If you don't think players would have been interested in playing with LeBon James in Cleveland, than you either don't follow basketball or are just incredibly ignorant. Do you really think Anthony Parker and JJ Hickson were the best players Cleveland could have brought in? Really??

 

How are you going to call some ignorant when you are flat our wrong.  Go look at his last two years in Cleveland and the free agents they pursued and ultimately didnt sign.

 

You are wrong and once again speaking out of the wrong end. 

Quote:How are you going to call some ignorant when you are flat our wrong.  Go look at his last two years in Cleveland and the free agents they pursued and ultimately didnt sign.

 

You are wrong and once again speaking out of the wrong end. 

 

Again, if you think that Anthony Parker and JJ Hickson were the two best players Cleveland could get to start alongside LeBron then you are not very bright.

Quote:Again, if you think that Anthony Parker and JJ Hickson were the two best players Cleveland could get to start alongside LeBron then you are not very bright.

You are missing his point. Again.

Quote:Scottie Pippen. One of the most under appreciated athletes ever.


"Jordan retired before the 1993–94 season, due to the death of his father James R. Jordan, Sr., and in his absence Pippen emerged from Jordan's shadow. That year, he earned All-Star Game MVP honors and led the Bulls in scoring, assists, and blocks, and was second in the NBA in steals per game, averaging 22.0 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 2.9 steals, and 0.8 blocks per game, while shooting 49.1% from the field and a career-best 32% from the 3-point line. For his efforts, he earned the first of three straight All-NBA First Team selections, and he finished third in MVP voting. The Bulls finished the season with 55 wins, only two fewer than the year before."


Jordan is the greatest but the Pippen slander won't stand.

umm that was also the very first year Pippen was that caliber a player, before then he was just a decent role player.  Jordan leaving actually was a big reason Pippen was able to up his game.  Prior to that season Pippen was not the same player and to say he was is an insult to the development he accomplished.

Quote:umm that was also the very first year Pippen was that caliber a player, before then he was just a decent role player. Jordan leaving actually was a big reason Pippen was able to up his game. Prior to that season Pippen was not the same player and to say he was is an insult to the development he accomplished.

How convenient.

Missing his point? He laughed at the idea that Cleveland supported LeBron James with cast-offs when that is exactly what they did. Unless you think that Anthony Parker and JJ Hickson were the best players Cleveland could bring in to play with the reigning NBA MVP?

 

Cleveland didn't need to land big fish to keep LeBron in Cleveland. They merely had to show the desire to build an NBA Championship roster. They easily could have brought in B-list free agents to compliment LeBron. Instead, in 2009 the free agents they brought in to push for a championship were Jamario Moon, Leon Powe, and Anthony Parker.

 

Like I said, cast-offs.

Quote:Again, if you think that Anthony Parker and JJ Hickson were the two best players Cleveland could get to start alongside LeBron then you are not very bright.

 

There were numerous free agents Cleveland went after, and numerous free agents that turned them down.

 

I was able to google it pretty easily.

Quote:There were numerous free agents Cleveland went after, and numerous free agents that turned them down.

 

I was able to google it pretty easily.

 

Names? Sources? What contracts were being offered? The burden of proof here lies with you. Cleveland didn't do enough to bring in support for LeBron and went into the season with Anthony Parker and JJ Hickson as starters. You're the only person that thinks that Cleveland did all they could to build a championship-level supporting cast for LeBron.

Quote:LeBron came into the league as the most hyped player of all time. By 23, he led the NBA in scoring. By 24, he was the MVP of the league. Rather than building around that, the Cavs decided to support LeBron James with cast-offs. In 2009/2010 out of 82 games, Anthony Parker started 81 and JJ Hickson started 73. That was a huge slap in the face to LeBron that Cleveland didn't care about increasing it's chance at an NBA Championship. They had LeBron James to keep them competitive and keep cash-flow positive and that was good enough for them. I don't blame LeBron in the least for giving them the deuces. The issue with LeBron is that his "The Decision" thing was way, way overblown and sensationalized. However, "The Decision" raised $2.5 Million for the Boys and Girls Club through just ad sales, so it's hard to be upset over that.

 

Regardless, LeBron doesn't owe anything to Cleveland. Cleveland owes LeBron.

 

Agree

Quote:Names? Sources? What contracts were being offered? The burden of proof here lies with you. Cleveland didn't do enough to bring in support for LeBron and went into the season with Anthony Parker and JJ Hickson as starters. You're the only person that thinks that Cleveland did all they could to build a championship-level supporting cast for LeBron.

 

Like I said I could find it pretty easily. 

 

Want to know a big reason they couldn't land a free agent in Cleveland?  Lebron James wouldn't commit to the franchise (and I'm not saying he had to, but who wants to go to Cleveland?).  He held it over their head and didnt commit.    I will give you some good articles on that at least....

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/..._of_c.html

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/...enera.html

 

http://rightdowneuclid.com/2013/10/25/cl...nny-ferry/

Quote:Like I said I could find it pretty easily. 

 

Want to know a big reason they couldn't land a free agent in Cleveland?  Lebron James wouldn't commit to the franchise (and I'm not saying he had to, but who wants to go to Cleveland?).  He held it over their head and didnt commit.    I will give you some good articles on that at least....

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/..._of_c.html

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/...enera.html

 

http://rightdowneuclid.com/2013/10/25/cl...nny-ferry/

 

"I could find it pretty easily" is a pretty pathetic cop out. The burden is on proof is on you.

 

The Cavs had the best player in the league and compliment him with these free agent signings:

"July 13, 2009 -- Signs free agent Anthony Parker.

July 24, 2009 -- Signs free agent Jamario Moon.

August 11, 2009 -- Signs free agent Leon Powe."

 

I'm not talking about the 2010 off-season which was LeBron's free agency year. I'm talking about his first 7 years in Cleveland. You think that Cleveland did all they could to build around LeBron?

Quote:"I could find it pretty easily" is a pretty pathetic cop out. The burden is on proof is on you.

 

The Cavs had the best player in the league and compliment him with these free agent signings:

"July 13, 2009 -- Signs free agent Anthony Parker.

July 24, 2009 -- Signs free agent Jamario Moon.

August 11, 2009 -- Signs free agent Leon Powe."

 

I'm not talking about the 2010 off-season which was LeBron's free agency year. I'm talking about his first 7 years in Cleveland. You think that Cleveland did all they could to build around LeBron?

 

Did you open any of the links I sent you?  I even gave you a link showing the trades and signings that were made the whole time he was there.

 

I don't owe you anything.  Everyone here likes to say the burden of proof is on someone else, but I really could care less whether you believe it or not.  The Cavaliers went after free agents in Lebron's career and were always rebuked for one reason or another.

Quote:Did you open any of the links I sent you?  I even gave you a link showing the trades and signings that were made the whole time he was there.

 

I don't owe you anything.  Everyone here likes to say the burden of proof is on someone else, but I really could care less whether you believe it or not.  The Cavaliers went after free agents in Lebron's career and were always rebuked for one reason or another.

 

I did, and how you think that supports your claims is beyond me. Per your source, from 2005-2009 these were the Free Agents Cleveland chose to support LeBron with:

 

August 5, 2005 -- Signs free agent Larry Hughes, free agent Donyell Marshall.

September 8, 2005 -- Signs free agent Damon Jones

July 13, 2009 -- Signs free agent Anthony Parker.

July 24, 2009 -- Signs free agent Jamario Moon.

August 11, 2009 -- Signs free agent Leon Powe.

 

That's grotesque.

 

Or am I suppose to be wow'd by Cleveland trading for a 37 year old Shaq?

Quote:Did you open any of the links I sent you?  I even gave you a link showing the trades and signings that were made the whole time he was there.

 

I don't owe you anything.  Everyone here likes to say the burden of proof is on someone else, but I really could care less whether you believe it or not.  The Cavaliers went after free agents in Lebron's career and were always rebuked for one reason or another.

 

Prove it. Show me all these free agents that turned down offers from Cleveland and accepted lesser offers elsewhere. I'll wait.

Quote:I did, and how you think that supports your claims is beyond me. Per your source, from 2005-2009 these were the Free Agents Cleveland chose to support LeBron with:

 

August 5, 2005 -- Signs free agent Larry Hughes, free agent Donyell Marshall.

September 8, 2005 -- Signs free agent Damon Jones

July 13, 2009 -- Signs free agent Anthony Parker.

July 24, 2009 -- Signs free agent Jamario Moon.

August 11, 2009 -- Signs free agent Leon Powe.

 

That's grotesque.

 

Or am I suppose to be wow'd by Cleveland trading for a 37 year old Shaq?

 

 

I gave a link for a break down of the moves Cleveland tried to make during Lebron's tenure.

 

-The Cavs offered Tom Izzo $6 million dollars in 2010 to entice Lebron to stay.  A large chunk of change at that time.

 

 

-Cleveland showed interest in Robert Horry in 2009.

 

 

-They were trying to make a trade for Shawn Marrion in 2008.

 

 

It's not like they could offer tons of money to another player in Lebron's range.  He was going to get a max contract, and the team would have no money to spend on supporting cast.  See 2014 Miami heat.

 

Edit:  Spin away....

You probably wont remember this, but the Wade/Bosh/Lebron deal was really the first time younger guys took pay cuts to try and win a title.  Before that it had always been aging players trying to get a ring.

 

Not many teams went out and signed a big money free agent to try and get a winning team.  There are still salary cap implications that you dont want to acknowledge.