One of the dominant topics of any football message board or discussion is the importance of the OL to the development of any team. On this board we've seen debates regarding whether you build from the trenches or not. We've seen references posters have made to some great OLs. Today, much of the discussion on the board has focused on who will man the C position now that Meester has retired.
But one thing I haven't seen-not even on NFL Network-is any effort to rank the all time great offensive lines in NFL history.
I have had a tough time ranking a 1 to 5 group, and I think it would be even harder ranking a 1-10.
Input, debate, and discussion on this topic is most certainly welcome.
Here is my stab at it-and I am by no means comfortable with this. I could change it the more I think about it.
1. Madden era Oakland Raiders. -Included All time greats Gene Upshaw (Hall of Famer and member of NFL's 75th anniversary all time team), Art Shell (Hall of Famer), and Jim Otto (Hall of Famer)
2. 1990s Dallas-quite possibly the most dominant run blocking team in NFL history. Featured Hall of Famer Larry Allen, and Pro bowlers Nate Newton, Mark Stepnoski, Erik Williams.
3. The Hogs-Won 3 Super Bowls with excellent OL play. Featured Hal of Famer Russ Grimm, Pro Bowlers Joe Jacoby, and Jim Lachey.
4. Lombardi era Packers-ran the legendary Packer sweep to perfection, winning numerous championships. Featured Hall of Famer in Forrest Gregg, and should be HOFers Jerry Kramer and Fuzzy Thurston.
5. Late 80s/Early 1990s Oilers-Bruce Matthews and Mike Munchak are Hall of Famers and part of a dominant OL.
There are plenty of other teams I feel warrant consideration here.
What do you guys think?
Nothing beats the 1990's era Cowboys for me.
I'd add the 74-80 Steelers to the discussion. I wasn't alive for them, but from what I've seen others say about them, it sounds like they should be in the discussion.
Quote:Nothing beats the 1990's era Cowboys for me.
I get that, and I was tempted to put them up top.
But that Raiders line was successful too...winning Super Bowls. The difference is, three Hall of Famers for the Raiders on that OL, including one on the 75th anniversary team. I think had Erik Williams not gotten in that accident and ruined his knee, he would have been another Hall of Famer on that Dallas OL (could you imagine a right side of Erik Williams and Larry Allen?!?)
But there were other great lines I left off I could have added to this list.
The 70's Bills' OL "The electric company"...featuring HOF Joe Delaimellure (sp) and Reggie McKenzie... that group sprung OJ Simpson to have the NFL's first 2000 yard rushing season.
The Dickerson era Rams OL, with Jackie Slater was a great line.
The 1980s Bengals in the Gregg-Wyche era, featuring Anthony Munoz was a great line.
The Chiefs under Schottenheimer had strong OLs.
Quote:I'd add the 74-80 Steelers to the discussion. I wasn't alive for them, but from what I've seen others say about them, it sounds like they should be in the discussion.
Now perhaps one of my issues is when I think of the Steelers of that time, I tend to think of their defense, but I don't know if I would put the Steelers' OL of that era among the all time greats. C Mike Webster certainly belongs among the all time greats at his position (in fact how do the Steelers so consistently find absolute studs at C?), but I don't know if I would put that OL as a group with the others.
None of the other guys who played along Webster during that span were Hall of Famers or Pro Bowlers.
Of course the 90's Cowboys belongs near the top.
The Hogs were great.
A great O-line that often gets overlooked, is the Patriots through the early part of the 2000-2010 decade. Those guys were awesome.
Bengals O-line in the early 80's was a good one. As was their O-line in the mid 2000's (Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Braham, Steinbach). Very good lines, not elite though.
The Hogs and 90s Cowboys for me.
Quote:Of course the 90's Cowboys belongs near the top.
The Hogs were great.
A great O-line that often gets overlooked, is the Patriots through the early part of the 2000-2010 decade. Those guys were awesome.
Bengals O-line in the early 80's was a good one. As was their O-line in the mid 2000's (Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Braham, Steinbach). Very good lines, not elite though.
I would rate them as certainly among the top five pass blocking OLs.
They historically gave Brady an insane amount of time.
Now would they necessarily be my first choice on 4th and 1? No.
But a very good OL. Do you think there are/were any Hall of Famers on those lines?
I really liked Light, but I'm not sure he's a HOF guy.
I was thinking the Oilers good call.
Quote:
1. Madden era Oakland Raiders. -Included All time greats Gene Upshaw (Hall of Famer and member of NFL's 75th anniversary all time team), Art Shell (Hall of Famer), and Jim Otto (Hall of Famer)
This would be my number one as well. Hard to argue with those three players, three Hall of Famers and three guys that should be in the discussion for the top player at their position all-time. Otto, Shell and Upshaw are three of the best guys to ever suit up. They didn't play together all that long but just having those three HOF level guys in the system says a lot.
Jim Otto is fantastic. Not only was he a top level player, he was as durable as they come. 15 consecutive years at center without missing a game due to injury. Also...I loved his double zero jersey number.
Quote:Bengals O-line in the early 80's was a good one. As was their O-line in the mid 2000's (Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Braham, Steinbach). Very good lines, not elite though.
I think that Bengals OL of the 80s was a better overall group than the one from the mid 2000s you mention here, but that one in the mid 2000s was a very good group.
I have to think the Seattle OL featuring Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson has to merit some consideration, as I think both will end up in the Hall of Fame...or at least finalist candidates.
Quote:This would be my number one as well. Hard to argue with those three players, three Hall of Famers and three guys that should be in the discussion for the top player at their position all-time. Otto, Shell and Upshaw are three of the best guys to ever suit up. They didn't play together all that long but just having those three HOF level guys in the system says a lot.
Jim Otto is fantastic. Not only was he a top level player, he was as durable as they come. 15 consecutive years at center without missing a game due to injury. Also...I loved his double zero jersey number.
Dave Dalby wasn't bad, either.
The early 70s Dolphins had Little and Kuechenberg with Langer at Center and rival the 1990s Cowboys in run blocking.
Quote:The early 70s Dolphins had Little and Kuechenberg with Langer at Center and rival the 1990s Cowboys in run blocking.
Good call on that Dolphins OL.
I think one key aspect you are leaving off the Madden era team is Dave Casper... back in those years a TE HAD to block and Casper could... if they could catch that was just a bonus...
Casper was a Honorable Mention All-American OT for Notre Dame in 1972 before moving to TE... in his early years for Oakland he was more of a blocking TE... more so than being noted for his pass catching abilities... that later changed before Madden retired but Casper could still block and block exceptionally well...
Casper is in the College Football and the Pro Football Hall of Fames...
Quote:I think one key aspect you are leaving off the Madden era team is Dave Casper... back in those years a TE HAD to block and Casper could... if they could catch that was just a bonus...
Casper was a Honorable Mention All-American OT for Notre Dame in 1972 before moving to TE... in his early years for Oakland he was more of a blocking TE... more so than being noted for his pass catching abilities... that later changed before Madden retired but Casper could still block and block exceptionally well...
Casper is in the College Football and the Pro Football Hall of Fames...
I in no way mean this as a slight against "the ghost." Without question he was a complete TE and a great one by any standard.
I just question, perhaps to the point of underrating it's influence, the significance of a TE that can block in having a successful running game.
There have been numerous dominant rushing attacks over the years that featured TEs that were less than dominant blockers. Dallas' running game in the early to mid 1990s dominated the league and led them to become team of the 1990s. However, they featured Jay Novaceck who was nowhere close to a dominant, overpowering blocker. He was more a seal off guy than someone who would pancake a defender.
In the latter half of that same decade, Denver won back to back super bowls to close out Elway's great career. Though Elway had the best statistical years of his career in that system, they succeeded because of that running game. Shannon Sharpe was the TE on that team, and he was known more for his receiving prowess than his blocking.
This was repeated in the start of the new decade, as Baltimore rode a dominant running game featuring the same SHannon Sharpe from above.
I think it's a lot easier to have a dominant running attack without a dominant run blocking TE than it is to have any sort of credible passing game without a credible receiving threat at TE.