Quote:Caldwell likes having his excess of draft picks. Now that we've gotten a glimpse of the roster, assuming you were the GM wanting more picks for the next draft, who would you trade, why, and for what?
The only position, in my mind, that we have trade'able depth would be at wide receiver. Shorts would be my candidate for trade, as the draft delivered 2 starting caliber receivers. I don't see Shorts as a good candidate in the slot playing routinely over the middle with his concussion history, and Sanders can fill the role well. Although I like to discount Blackmon from discussion, but if he does return sometime in the future, Shorts value is further lessened. He's got only one year left on his rookie deal, and likely considered a #2/3 guy by most teams, so his trade value would likely be a modest 4th-5th round pick.
i'm not saying he has made a habit of it or anything, but DC also accumulated those Picks during the season and in the FA right before the draft... he wasnt really making to many moves in the off season prior to the season.. but either way i just dont see to many people to trade... kinda thinkin POZ but i dont see anyone goin for his contract and i dont see to many people who would fill MLB on our roster.. DC seems to like to deal out people who he didnt hire and since he's dumped almost everyone on the roster, i dont see anyone else who he would want to deal... alualu maybe.,something i have thought about recently was if we could use the cap room freed up while blackmon is suspended... if we dont have to pay him, which to my understanding we do not, can we count that as freed up cap room for the time being?
Quote:They don't have the cap to take on Poz's contract.
Ahh...didn't consider that.
Quote:Caldwell likes having his excess of draft picks. Now that we've gotten a glimpse of the roster, assuming you were the GM wanting more picks for the next draft, who would you trade, why, and for what?
The only position, in my mind, that we have trade'able depth would be at wide receiver. Shorts would be my candidate for trade, as the draft delivered 2 starting caliber receivers. I don't see Shorts as a good candidate in the slot playing routinely over the middle with his concussion history, and Sanders can fill the role well. Although I like to discount Blackmon from discussion, but if he does return sometime in the future, Shorts value is further lessened. He's got only one year left on his rookie deal, and likely considered a #2/3 guy by most teams, so his trade value would likely be a modest 4th-5th round pick.
You're assuming they're 2 starting caliber receivers, and that they'll transition to that role smoothly as rookies. I don't agree. Historically, rookie receivers eventually hit a wall. There are exceptions, but for the most part, the wall exists. Because Shorts is our only truly proven receiver on the roster, I don't see Caldwell making a trade there, especially when they're already in discussions for a contract extension. The front office clearly sees the value in keeping him around.
Quote:Probably because it spits in the face of value. Imagine if we tried to deal MJD after the season in which he got the rushing trophy? Free late 2nd or high 3rd rounder. What did we get from him the next 2 seasons? Not crap because he got old and injured. Shorts is just simply a great opportunity to increase value of the roster by adding a 2nd day pick.
Smart GM's trade players a year or two away from a player totally falling apart stats-wise (poz?) and players that are about to be buried depth chart wise by ascending youth on the roster (cecil shorts)
Smart GMs find a way to trade marginal players who are perceived to be on the rise for additional draft picks. They trade aging veterans who might have a year or two left in the tank to give to another team. Shorts falls into neither category for this team.
I think you're putting the cart before the horse with the ascending youth expectations.
As far as who I would trade? I'd give Stanzi a ton of playing time in the preseason, and dangle him out there in trade if he's effective.
Quote:Caldwell likes having his excess of draft picks. Now that we've gotten a glimpse of the roster, assuming you were the GM wanting more picks for the next draft, who would you trade, why, and for what?
The only position, in my mind, that we have trade'able depth would be at wide receiver. Shorts would be my candidate for trade, as the draft delivered 2 starting caliber receivers. I don't see Shorts as a good candidate in the slot playing routinely over the middle with his concussion history, and Sanders can fill the role well. Although I like to discount Blackmon from discussion, but if he does return sometime in the future, Shorts value is further lessened. He's got only one year left on his rookie deal, and likely considered a #2/3 guy by most teams, so his trade value would likely be a modest 4th-5th round pick.
If the team could do it and get something reasonable for it M. Lewis he is the 2nd highest player on the team & 2nd highest TE in the league at almost 7 million this year I dont see it on the field to warrant it.
Quote:If the team could do it and get something reasonable for it M. Lewis he is the 2nd highest player on the team & 2nd highest TE in the league at almost 7 million this year I dont see it on the field to warrant it.
Plus, those fantasy numbers. That's what really matters.
Good to see you decided to bump a thread to push your new agenda.
While it's true that Marcedes turned into a pumpkin after his new contract, I think some of us have been a bit too critical of his performance and why he has been a disappointment.
If my foggy scotch filled brain remembers correctly, Lewis signed his extension the in the offseason in which Gabbert was drafted. He then had to deal with the QB that was not ready to play. Yes, he stunk up the joint. There's no doubt about it. But Lewis has always been a role player.
I define a role player as one that needs strong leadership both on and off the field that can help elevate his game. Lewis found himself, along with the rest of the team, dealing with alot of drama and ineptitude. As an armchair sports psychotherapist, I would hypothesize that his hideous performance was correlated to the fact that he had absolutely no confidence in Gabbert and had begun to question the decisions of the coaching staffs--both JDR and Mularkey.
It would be fair to say that other players, Poz comes to mind, stepped up and continued to perform... However, I don't think Lewis is cut from the same mental cloth.
To substantiate my theory--- Marcedes was a beast during the 2nd half of the season. I know, it goes against the popular thought of this board to bring up positives regarding Lewis. But if we look at the arc of his career his slide has alot to do with the lack of true leadership with the franchise until recently. The moment the Gus Juice began to take hold (which I believe was right after the bye), Marcedes really stepped up. There were moments in the second half of the season where Marcedes looked like he was ready to eat snails. At least once a game (again in the 2nd half of the season) I recall him making a monster catch and run where he looked to be finishing plays and hurting secondary defenders.
I'm sure some will not read my entire post and just come up with some non-sense about his stone hands and dropping TD's wide open in the end zone. I've been critical of him too. But to deny how hard-core he looked last year after he came back from his "injury" along with the coaching staff finally getting a hold of the psyche of the team should not be ignored.
Clay Harbour also made some amazing plays during the last stretch of the season, but it's clear he doesn't have the athletic ability Marcedes has. There are some physical gifts that Lewis has that if they are harnessed can make him a true all-pro. I have confidence that Gus can get the best out of this guy. He's a diamond that needs the constant polish of a strong leader. Gus is a strong leader.
Don't be surprised if Marcedes proves why he deserves to be on this roster and a contributor this season.
Quote:While it's true that Marcedes turned into a pumpkin after his new contract, I think some of us have been a bit too critical of his performance and why he has been a disappointment.
If my foggy scotch filled brain remembers correctly, Lewis signed his extension the in the offseason in which Gabbert was drafted. He then had to deal with the QB that was not ready to play. Yes, he stunk up the joint. There's no doubt about it. But Lewis has always been a role player.
I define a role player as one that needs strong leadership both on and off the field that can help elevate his game. Lewis found himself, along with the rest of the team, dealing with alot of drama and ineptitude. As an armchair sports psychotherapist, I would hypothesize that his hideous performance was correlated to the fact that he had absolutely no confidence in Gabbert and had begun to question the decisions of the coaching staffs--both JDR and Mularkey.
It would be fair to say that other players, Poz comes to mind, stepped up and continued to perform... However, I don't think Lewis is cut from the same mental cloth.
To substantiate my theory--- Marcedes was a beast during the 2nd half of the season. I know, it goes against the popular thought of this board to bring up positives regarding Lewis. But if we look at the arc of his career his slide has alot to do with the lack of true leadership with the franchise until recently. The moment the Gus Juice began to take hold (which I believe was right after the bye), Marcedes really stepped up. There were moments in the second half of the season where Marcedes looked like he was ready to eat snails. At least once a game (again in the 2nd half of the season) I recall him making a monster catch and run where he looked to be finishing plays and hurting secondary defenders.
I'm sure some will not read my entire post and just come up with some non-sense about his stone hands and dropping TD's wide open in the end zone. I've been critical of him too. But to deny how hard-core he looked last year after he came back from his "injury" along with the coaching staff finally getting a hold of the psyche of the team should not be ignored.
Clay Harbour also made some amazing plays during the last stretch of the season, but it's clear he doesn't have the athletic ability Marcedes has. There are some physical gifts that Lewis has that if they are harnessed can make him a true all-pro. I have confidence that Gus can get the best out of this guy. He's a diamond that needs the constant polish of a strong leader. Gus is a strong leader.
Don't be surprised if Marcedes proves why he deserves to be on this roster and a contributor this season.
I'm finding myself in disagreement with pretty much all your posts today.
Quote:Probably because it spits in the face of value. Imagine if we tried to deal MJD after the season in which he got the rushing trophy? Free late 2nd or high 3rd rounder. What did we get from him the next 2 seasons? Not crap because he got old and injured. Shorts is just simply a great opportunity to increase value of the roster by adding a 2nd day pick.
Smart GM's trade players a year or two away from a player totally falling apart stats-wise (poz?) and players that are about to be buried depth chart wise by ascending youth on the roster (cecil shorts)
You see I disagree with this, ok in hindsight a trade for a second rounder would have been a good call but it wasn't like his play fell off a cliff that season
He was averaging close to 5 yards per carry before the injury in week 7 which is the sort of play you keep hold of
His foot injury was just as much a freak accident as joeckel's ankle and is just bad luck that could not be predicted. It killed his 2012 season and probably resulted in him loosing a step for 2013 with it not helping he was hit behind the line on almost every play
what people seem to want us to do is become a cycle developing and trading but you have to hold on to your good players if you want to improve as a team
Ok if this team had Julio Jones AJ green Andre Johnson and Cecil shorts on the roster shorts would be trade bait but we don't
We have two rookies (remember they take time to get in stride, Blackmon took about 8 Weeks) ,a guy that is perpetually suspended and a glass of champagne at his sisters wedding away from never seeing the field again, ace Sanders and mike brown
I am not saying if a team smacked a second on the table I wouldn't take it in a heartbeat but anything less and I would pass unless as with Monroe it was unlikely he would resign with the team which I doubt
Poz and Lewis have too high salaries for trade offers and beyond that its rookies and developmental players which I don't see netting us much
Quote:You see I disagree with this, ok in hindsight a trade for a second rounder would have been a good call but it wasn't like his play fell off a cliff that season
That is assuming anyone was prepared to trade a 2nd for him. There was no suggestion from any serious media outlet that this was the case.
Its all very easy to say we should have traded/should trade
'player a' for
'draft pick b', but it doesn't really work like that.
Poz to Atlanta for a third?
Quote:Poz to Atlanta for a third?
I think he's worth more to the Jags than that.
Quote:I think he's worth more to the Jags than that.
Given that he is 29, very well paid and does not play a premium position, he has very little trade value. If someone offered a 3rd, Caldwell would probably call the local psyche unit on the other GM after taking the deal.
Quote:Given that he is 29, very well paid and does not play a premium position, he has very little trade value. If someone offered a 3rd, Caldwell would probably call the local psyche unit on the other GM after taking the deal.
I don't think Caldwell would accept a 3rd for Poz, especially Atlanta's likely later 3rd.
Despite everything you stated, some of which I agree with - I still think he's more valuable to the Jags than receiving that single 3rd for him.
Certainly not Shorts. It's been years since the WR position was this deep, and now people want to throw it away for a pittance? I don't think so.
Quote:Certainly not Shorts. It's been years since the WR position was this deep, and now people want to throw it away for a pittance? I don't think so.
depending on how Robinson and Lee develop and the Blackmon situation I could see Shorts being traded next offseason but it'd be foolish to trade him now.
Quote:If Henne plays at an 85 QBR level, he might be worth something later in the season, but if he is playing that good do we want to drop him? I'd guess not.
If Henne has a QB rating of 85+ late in the year, three things will happen:
1. The Jaguars will be challenging for a playoff berth.
2. There's no way they'd trade Henne before the deadline if he were playing at that level and the team was winning.
3. I'll fill my hat with cow manure and take a big bite.
Basically, no way Henne's playing at that level, and if he somehow is, no way the Jags pull a deadline deal to offload him. They'd never get more than a five for him at any rate, and if the team's winning because of him, he's worth more than that.
Quote:If I could get Jerruh to panic about losing Sean Lee and give up a high pick for Poz I'd do it.
Bingo. If the Cowboys wanted Poz badly enough, I'd be more than happy to hook his agent up with Jerry, do the deal, and laugh all the way to the bank with Dallas' three.
Quote:As far as who I would trade? I'd give Stanzi a ton of playing time in the preseason, and dangle him out there in trade if he's effective.
Not a bad idea. Doubtful there'd be much of a market for him outside of a conditional seven, but a conditional seven for a guy acquired on waivers isn't bad. Still worth noting that the Jaguars waived him once last year and he wasn't claimed, plus QBs are perhaps the least likely position on the entire roster to play well without a training camp or other experience with the team they're sent to. Puts a bit of a lid on their production potential.
Quote:Ok if this team had Julio Jones AJ green Andre Johnson and Cecil shorts on the roster shorts would be trade bait but we don't
If we had a wide receiver corps like that, I wouldn't trade anyone. Throw Henne out there and watch us become the #2 passing attack in the league with a serviceable backup as our starter.
Quote:I don't think Caldwell would accept a 3rd for Poz, especially Atlanta's likely later 3rd.
Despite everything you stated, some of which I agree with - I still think he's more valuable to the Jags than receiving that single 3rd for him.
Now, I love me some Poz. He has been nothing but a stand up guy, playing his heart out on a sucky defense every year he has been here and he has been a very good player and leader.
But there is no way in hell he isn't worth a 3rd, heck if Monroe is only worth a 4th, Poz might be had for a 5th. Or rather he would be worth that if any GM in the league would pay it, which they wont, because he is a LB who is a great run stopper and a great tackler but mediocre at rushing the passer, a one trick pony in coverage, on the downswing of his career and paid a lot. That sort of player has no trade value and if another team were to suffer a collective brain fart and forget that, I'm sure they would take a trade.
First off, I still don't think the Monroe trade was worth it. It is close because this year was a ridiculously deep draft, but Monroe is a level of tackle that is hard to find as evidenced by his new contract.
Personally I think the only spots we're going to be cutting good players are at WR, DL, and possibly RB so that's where I want to trade. And I don't see any teams coming to us wanting Alualu or Sanders or Todman.
I don't want to trade Shorts because WR has a high bust rate and we don't know yet what we'll get out of Lee and Robinson.
We're practically out of guys nearing their second contract that have shown promise, but aren't key contributors. And that's where we've gained picks trading. Thomas, Monroe, Nelson, and even Gabbert fit the mold. We're not getting picks for borderline roster guys or for guys near or over 30.
Alualu, Branch, and Shorts are the guys other teams would want. Shorts is a key contributor. Branch is unlikely to fit another team as well as he fits the LEO spot and has a chance to be really good this year. I'd need a really good pick to give him up. Alualu I'd shop all day, but don't think I'll find anything better than a late day 3 pick for, which isn't enough.