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No. He looked really lost.

Quote:No. He looked really lost.

when?  On what play?

 

He was beat in coverage.. once, but once is about the only time he was ever asked to cover a receiver man to man.

 

Strictly rushing the passer (which is what he'll be asked to do in this scheme and at his position) the guy looked like the real deal.  The "transition to the 3-4" criticism has me laughing.   These same people/posters had the same criticism about Mario Williams when he was asked to stand up...  You know, the guy who only played half a season yet became the highest paid player in NFL History

Quote:I'm sorry, stopped reading after  you posted "the fact that he looked completely lost the previous week", because that never happened (the guy played great in that game too)..

 

 

Lol. Great? But he did look lost. You can plug your ears and "Lalala" but, as you say, the fact remains that he did.

 

Clowney got brutalized every time he dropped back because he simply doesn't know how to read run-pass from that position. You know, he'd be able to avoid that situation altogether if all he had to do was rush the passer off the line of scrimmage like he was so used to doing... Oh wait.

 

It's going to be hilarious watching teams shred Houston with 2TE sets. I'll feel bad for Clowney because I know he's better than that, though.

 

Houston will switch to a 4-3 eventually. It's the only logical thing they can do.

 

 

Quote:"The Cardinals' combo of Carson Palmer and backup quarterback Drew Stanton torched the Texans' first-team defense."

 

Obviously, they weren't effective enough. We can talk and talk all day about "pressure" and getting to the QB, but if you get there and the quarterback still shreds your defense, you're still 50% of the problem.

 

And we can say "m-muh double team" all we want but he'd clearly be more successful at beating those double teams as a 4-3 end, which further supports my claim that he's not going to perform to his fullest potential as a 3-4 OLB.

 

And stop comparing him to Demarcus Ware. Clowney can think on his toes and that's what I liked about him, but he's nowhere near as football smart as Ware was.

Quote:Lol. Great? But he did look lost. You can plug your ears and "Lalala" but, as you say, the fact remains that he did.

 

Clowney got brutalized every time he dropped back because he simply doesn't know how to read run-pass from that position. You know, he'd be able to avoid that situation altogether if all he had to do was rush the passer off the line of scrimmage like he was so used to doing... Oh wait.

 

It's going to be hilarious watching teams shred Houston with 2TE sets. I'll feel bad for Clowney because I know he's better than that, though.

 

Houston will switch to a 4-3 eventually. It's the only logical thing they can do.

 

 

 

Obviously, they weren't effective enough. We can talk and talk all day about "pressure" and getting to the QB, but if you get there and the quarterback still shreds your defense, you're still 50% of the problem.

 

And we can say "m-muh double team" all we want but he'd clearly be more successful at beating those double teams as a 4-3 end, which further supports my claim that he's not going to perform to his fullest potential as a 3-4 OLB.

 

And stop comparing him to Demarcus Ware. Clowney can think on his toes and that's what I liked about him, but he's nowhere near as football smart as Ware was.

 

LOL, So just for sake of this argument, your argument is Clowney will fail in this system strictly because of coverage responsibilities..  Is that correct?

 

How many times in that game did he actually drop back into coverage?  I'll answer for you.. hardly ever.  Which is why I brought up DeMarcus Ware in the first place. Ware like Clowney was hardly ever asked to drop back into coverage...  and also Mario Williams.  Another player who played at the 3-4 OLBer position yet hardly ever was asked to drop back into coverage. So your "he can't reach his full potential unless he plays within a 4-3 front" is ludicrous.. sorry, but it is.  If a DE can move to OLBer and get injured thus missing half the season, yet still become the highest paid defensive player in NFL history (BTW, that was when Mario Williams was at his best) then I'm pretty sure Clowney is going to be able to figure things out. lol.

 

Clowney is mainly going to be asked to do one thing.. attack the passer.  He did that in the first preseason game (which you said he failed at) and he did it last night also.  If the guy stays healthy he's going to be DROY playing at that position and in this system,

Quote:LOL, So just for sake of this argument, your argument is Clowney will fail in this system strictly because of coverage responsibilities..  Is that correct?

 

How many times in that game did he actually drop back into coverage?  I'll answer for you.. hardly ever.  Which is why I brought up DeMarcus Ware in the first place, who also like Clowney is going to be.. was hardly ever was asked to drop back into coverage...  and also Mario Williams.  Another player who played at the 3-4 OLBer position yet hardly ever was asked to drop back into coverage. So your "he can't reach his full potential unless he plays within a 4-3 front" is ludicrous.. sorry, but it is.  If a DE can move to OLBer and get injured thus missing half the season, yet still become the highest paid defensive player in NFL history (BTW, that was when Mario Williams was at his best) then I'm pretty sure Clowney is going to be able to figure things out. lol.

 

Clowney is mainly going to be asked to do one thing.. attack the passer.  He did that in the first preseason game (which you said he failed at) and he did it last night also.  If the guy stays healthy he's going to be DROY playing at that position and in this system,

You are expecting Jaguar fans to see what you see in Clowney. Sorry but it's just not going to happen. They have their blinders on concerning some of our players just like we have ours on concerning the talent of some of theirs. That's just the nature of the beast and there will be no changing it. You know what will take those blinders off? Clowney will, in live games, in consecutive years. If not..then they where right to criticise him/Texan front office.

 

Me...I think Clowney was on fire vs Atlanta with his limited snaps. Vs Arizona, he only played 2 complete series', and looked great, being burned only once while in coverage, something we will have to expect to happen until he learns to cover and gets better and more comfortable doing it. He has the speed, there is no reason to think he can't do it.

 

All that being said, stop looking for justification and agreement from Jaguar fans. You'r not going to get it.

Quote:LOL, So just for sake of this argument, your argument is Clowney will fail in this system strictly because of coverage responsibilities..  Is that correct?

 

How many times in that game did he actually drop back into coverage?  I'll answer for you.. hardly ever.  Which is why I brought up DeMarcus Ware in the first place. Ware like Clowney was hardly ever asked to drop back into coverage...  and also Mario Williams.  Another player who played at the 3-4 OLBer position yet hardly ever was asked to drop back into coverage. So your "he can't reach his full potential unless he plays within a 4-3 front" is ludicrous.. sorry, but it is.  If a DE can move to OLBer and get injured thus missing half the season, yet still become the highest paid defensive player in NFL history (BTW, that was when Mario Williams was at his best) then I'm pretty sure Clowney is going to be able to figure things out. lol.

 

Clowney is mainly going to be asked to do one thing.. attack the passer.  He did that in the first preseason game (which you said he failed at) and he did it last night also.  If the guy stays healthy he's going to be DROY playing at that position and in this system,

 

Literally, your entire counter argument is comparisons to other players. I'm talking about Clowney.

 

I feel like we're getting nowhere with this because, even if an argument isn't there, you'll find one.

 

Bottom line: As a huge, huge Clowney fan before the draft (And this entire board can tell you how much I was pimping him here), I was not impressed by his first performance at all, and his second one, although not "dominant", was a breath of fresh air, and Houston needs to let go of the 3-4.

 

...Besides, "Dominance" is what Sen'Derrick Marks did against the Bucs, being PFF's highest graded player of the week  :whistling:

Quote:Literally, your entire counter argument is comparisons to other players. I'm talking about Clowney.

 

I feel like we're getting nowhere with this because, even if an argument isn't there, you'll find one.

 

Bottom line: As a huge, huge Clowney fan before the draft (And this entire board can tell you how much I was pimping him here), I was not impressed by his first performance at all, and his second one, although not "dominant", was a breath of fresh air, and Houston needs to let go of the 3-4.

 

...Besides, "Dominance" is what Sen'Derrick Marks did against the Bucs, being PFF's highest graded player of the week  :whistling:

 

 

Again a bunch or wishful thinking and hoping on your part..

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...xans-debut (yep he sucks and is going to be misused in this defense  :whistling: )

 

Should I just keep posting links describing what actually happened and how well Clowney has played from the 3-4 OLBer position or should we just continue with your narrative that he will fail and the Texans are wasting his ability by putting him at that position in this defensive scheme?

 

Also the reason why I brought up Ware and Williams is because both players are comparable in talent, size, and also were asked to make the move to OLBer from DE... and like Clowney they were given free rein to rush the passer/attack and hardly ever were asked to drop back into coverage.

Quote:You are expecting Jaguar fans to see what you see in Clowney. Sorry but it's just not going to happen. They have their blinders on concerning some of our players just like we have ours on concerning the talent of some of theirs. That's just the nature of the beast and there will be no changing it. You know what will take those blinders off? Clowney will, in live games, in consecutive years. If not..then they where right to criticise him/Texan front office.

 

Me...I think Clowney was on fire vs Atlanta with his limited snaps. Vs Arizona, he only played 2 complete series', and looked great, being burned only once while in coverage, something we will have to expect to happen until he learns to cover and gets better and more comfortable doing it. He has the speed, there is no reason to think he can't do it.

 

All that being said, stop looking for justification and agreement from Jaguar fans. You'r not going to get it.

 

I'm not looking for any "justification".  What I want to see is simply someone to admit they were wrong. 

 

During the entire offseason this guy said Clowney couldn't make the switch to that position and talked about how he would fail or bust at that position and how the Texans weren't going to allow him to play to his potential (just like when they had Mario Williams stand up).  I'm simply calling him out on it and it's funny to see him now refusing to admit that he was wrong.  The more snaps and games that are played and take place, this fact will only become more apparent so the sooner that he can simply admit He was wrong the quicker it will be that He doesn't look so foolish.

Quote:I'm not looking for any "justification". What I want to see is simply someone to admit they were wrong.

Whoa whoa whoa... you mean to tell me that someone was wrong? On the internet???

Quote:Whoa whoa whoa... you mean to tell me that someone was wrong? On the internet???

 

people are wrong all the time, sadly the amount of people who can actually admit they were wrong are few and far between. 

 

I mean can we cut through the B.C. here?.. through limited snaps in just two preseason games and also despite Clowney playing at a new position.. he's already flashed more and has shown more playmaking ability than Derrick Harvey and Quentin Groves have shown during their tenure with the Jags.. despite Houston stunting his potential by making him a OLBer

Quote:LOL, So just for sake of this argument, your argument is Clowney will fail in this system strictly because of coverage responsibilities..  Is that correct?

 

How many times in that game did he actually drop back into coverage?  I'll answer for you.. hardly ever.  Which is why I brought up DeMarcus Ware in the first place. Ware like Clowney was hardly ever asked to drop back into coverage...  and also Mario Williams.  Another player who played at the 3-4 OLBer position yet hardly ever was asked to drop back into coverage. So your "he can't reach his full potential unless he plays within a 4-3 front" is ludicrous.. sorry, but it is.  If a DE can move to OLBer and get injured thus missing half the season, yet still become the highest paid defensive player in NFL history (BTW, that was when Mario Williams was at his best) then I'm pretty sure Clowney is going to be able to figure things out. lol.

 

Clowney is mainly going to be asked to do one thing.. attack the passer.  He did that in the first preseason game (which you said he failed at) and he did it last night also.  If the guy stays healthy he's going to be DROY playing at that position and in this system,

 

 

Yes, in coverage, he looked lost. He didn't look lost on the line. He shouldn't. If he's going to be on the line all the time, might as well drop the 34.

 

Quote:I'm not looking for any "justification".  What I want to see is simply someone to admit they were wrong.

 

Go ahead.

Quote:Yes, in coverage, he looked lost. He didn't look lost on the line. He shouldn't. If he's going to be on the line all the time, might as well drop the 34.

 

 

Go ahead.

 

Go ahead with what?  Where am I wrong?

 

He's going to look lost in coverage.. that's a given, so it's good he's hardly ever going to be asked to cover. Houston doesn't have to drop the 3-4 since Clowney can make plays in their 3-4 package, just like Ware and Williams were able to do.

Quote:I'm not looking for any "justification".  What I want to see is simply someone to admit they were wrong. 

 

During the entire offseason this guy said Clowney couldn't make the switch to that position and talked about how he would fail or bust at that position and how the Texans weren't going to allow him to play to his potential (just like when they had Mario Williams stand up).  I'm simply calling him out on it and it's funny to see him now refusing to admit that he was wrong.  The more snaps and games that are played and take place, this fact will only become more apparent so the sooner that he can simply admit He was wrong the quicker it will be that He doesn't look so foolish.

You haven't done anything to prove me "wrong" because nothing significant has happened to prove you're right, which is why I said this argument is going nowhere.

 

I think what's even more hilarious is that you, a Texans fan, someone who should be used to preseason all-stars, should know better than to count your chickens before they hatch. Me, on the other hand, I'm still not entirely convinced Clowney can play the 3-4 to his fullest potential and I've posted why so many times on this board and the only thing he has proven is that when he knows it's a pass, he can rush the passer, but a 3-4 OLB has so much more responsibility than that from a play recognition perspective.

 

What you're trying to "prove" is that I'm "wrong" about something that lacks data to prove either way. I still maintain that Clowney will not play up to his fullest potential in the 3-4, and I still maintain that those odds are still in my favor as long as Clowney is still making terrible mistakes like getting ripped by the play action, especially in a division that loves its bootlegs.

 

I never said Clowney couldn't play the 3-4 OLB to his fullest potential, I said he wouldn't. He's got an entire season to prove me right or wrong. The game against Atlanta was a step in the right direction. The game in Arizona wasn't.

 

Quote:Again a bunch or wishful thinking and hoping on your part..

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...xans-debut (yep he sucks and is going to be misused in this defense  :whistling: )

 

Should I just keep posting links describing what actually happened and how well Clowney has played from the 3-4 OLBer position or should we just continue with your narrative that he will fail and the Texans are wasting his ability by putting him at that position in this defensive scheme?

 

Also the reason why I brought up Ware and Williams is because both players are comparable in talent, size, and also were asked to make the move to OLBer from DE... and like Clowney they were given free rein to rush the passer/attack and hardly ever were asked to drop back into coverage.

 

"Things are good because someone else tells me they are"


It's hilarious because in the exact video you posted, the very first highlight is Clowney stunting inside and still overpursuing the running back. Again, play recognition.


But at least you've found someone that shares your opinion. That's great. I actually watched the game. The only thing I got out of that Arizona game is that Houston needs to switch to a 4-3 because the 3-4 is so miscast on them it's sad to watch. Again, I can tell you that opinion is not exclusive to me. It's like watching the world's sexiest blonde consistently dye her hair red.

 

You should probably wait before the regular season before making a fresh account literally to tell someone their opinion is wrong. Another member of this board learned the hard way with Steve Slaton.

Quote:You haven't done anything to prove me "wrong" because nothing significant has happened to prove you're right, which is why I said this argument is going nowhere.

 

I think what's even more hilarious is that you, a Texans fan, someone who should be used to preseason all-stars, should know better than to count your chickens before they hatch. Me, on the other hand, I'm still not entirely convinced Clowney can play the 3-4 to his fullest potential and I've posted why so many times on this board and the only thing he has proven is that when he knows it's a pass, he can rush the passer, but a 3-4 OLB has so much more responsibility than that from a play recognition perspective.

 

What you're trying to "prove" is that I'm "wrong" about something that lacks data to prove either way. I still maintain that Clowney will not play up to his fullest potential in the 3-4, and I still maintain that those odds are still in my favor as long as Clowney is still making terrible mistakes like getting ripped by the play action, especially in a division that loves its bootlegs.

 

I never said Clowney couldn't play the 3-4 OLB to his fullest potential, I said he wouldn't. He's got an entire season to prove me right or wrong. The game against Atlanta was a step in the right direction. The game in Arizona wasn't.

 

 

"Things are good because someone else tells me they are"


It's hilarious because in the exact video you posted, the very first highlight is Clowney stunting inside and still overpursuing the running back. Again, play recognition.


But at least you've found someone that shares your opinion. That's great. I actually watched the game. The only thing I got out of that Arizona game is that Houston needs to switch to a 4-3 because the 3-4 is so miscast on them it's sad to watch. Again, I can tell you that opinion is not exclusive to me. It's like watching the world's sexiest blonde consistently dye her hair red.

 

You should probably wait before the regular season before making a fresh account literally to tell someone their opinion is wrong. Another member of this board learned the hard way with Steve Slaton.

 

 

Wow..  You mad?  You spent so many key strokes trying to prove your point, yet really said nothing.  It has to be so tiresome.

 

It's going to be fun watching this season take it's course and watching Clowney thrive in this defenseive scheme while you search for excuse after excuse on how he is a bad fit for it. 

 

 

BTW,  Steve Slaton was a excellent player and prospect... until his neck injury which gave him permanent nerve damage that caused him to cough the ball up every time he was hit in the head/neck. So Try again.

 

You say Clowney will suck and fail to reach his potential playing in this system

 

I say he won't and will thrive in it

 

At the end of the season we'll revisit this and see who was right. 

Quote:Go ahead with what?  Where am I wrong?

 

He's going to look lost in coverage.. that's a given, so it's good he's hardly ever going to be asked to cover. Houston doesn't have to drop the 3-4 since Clowney can make plays in their 3-4 package, just like Ware and Williams were able to do.

 

If you agree that he sucks, I don't know what we're arguing about.

 

If the guy is a one trick pony, the Texans are going to be pretty limited on blitz packages. You do realize that the biggest advantage of a 3-4 defense is the QB not knowing where pressure is coming from, right? I'm not saying the guy has to suck in coverage forever, but right now, he's being asked to do things he's not used to.

 

Ware? Maybe I'm missing something.

Quote:If you agree that he sucks, I don't know what we're arguing about.

 

If the guy is a one trick pony, the Texans are going to be pretty limited on blitz packages. You do realize that the biggest advantage of a 3-4 defense is the QB not knowing where pressure is coming from, right? I'm not saying the guy has to suck in coverage forever, but right now, he's being asked to do things he's not used to.

 

Ware? Maybe I'm missing something.

 

 

Why do people automatically assume just because a guy is asked to play OLBer in the 3-4, that said player is asked to cover regularly?

 

Will Clowney be asked to drop back and cover?  yes..  But in the the same way Ware was asked to cover (hardly ever), in the same way Williams was asked to cover (hardly ever), in the same way Von Miller is now asked to cover (you guessed it.. again hardly ever)

 

If we're all in agreement that Clowney thrives at rushing the passer then that's all that matters to me and he's already ahead of the curve, because last time I checked, the aforementioned players who were taken high in the draft and have made plenty of pro bowls weren't necessarily drafted for their coverage skills  and their placement and transition over to the 3-4 defense obviously didn't effect their effectiveness in the 3-4 scheme either did it?

Quote:Wow..  You mad?  You spent so many key strokes trying to prove your point, yet really said nothing.  It has to be so tiresome.

 

It's going to be fun watching this season take it's course and watching Clowney thrive in this defenseive scheme while you search for excuse after excuse on how he is a bad fit for it. 

 

 

BTW,  Steve Slaton was a excellent player and prospect... until his neck injury which gave him permanent nerve damage that caused him to cough the ball up every time he was hit in the head/neck. So Try again.

 

You say Clowney will suck and fail to reach his potential playing in this system

 

I say he won't and will thrive in it

 

At the end of the season we'll revisit this and see who was right. 

 

I pointed to visual evidence of my concerns in the exact article you yourself posted.. I don't know what else you want me to do other than tell a lie to my own eyes.

Quote:Why do people automatically assume just because a guy is asked to play OLBer in the 3-4, that said player is asked to cover regularly?

 

Will Clowney be asked to drop back and cover?  yes..  But in the the same way Ware was asked to cover (hardly ever), in the same way Williams was asked to cover (hardly ever), in the same way Von Miller is now asked to cover (you guessed it.. again hardly ever)

 

If we're all in agreement that Clowney thrives at rushing the passer then that's all that matters to me and he's already ahead of the curve, because last time I checked, the aforementioned players who were taken high in the draft and have made plenty of pro bowls weren't necessarily drafted for their coverage skills  and their placement and transition over to the 3-4 defense obviously didn't effect their effectiveness in the 3-4 scheme either did it?

Clowney might end up being a great player but the league today is driven by QBs and offense. The league rules and "points of emphasis" continue to prove that. If you even breathe on a QB, you'll get a flag. Clowney will get plenty of those as well. Having a great pass rusher is still important but not as important as having a great QB.


Unfortunately for you, you have the worst stable of QBs in the league.


In the long run, I think Jag fans will be glad you selected Clowney and left Bortles on the board for us. Enjoy your pass rusher.

Quote:Why do people automatically assume just because a guy is asked to play OLBer in the 3-4, that said player is asked to cover regularly?

 

Will Clowney be asked to drop back and cover?  yes..  But in the the same way Ware was asked to cover (hardly ever), in the same way Williams was asked to cover (hardly ever), in the same way Von Miller is now asked to cover (you guessed it.. again hardly ever)

 

If we're all in agreement that Clowney thrives at rushing the passer then that's all that matters to me and he's already ahead of the curve, because last time I checked, the aforementioned players who were taken high in the draft and have made plenty of pro bowls weren't necessarily drafted for their coverage skills  and their placement and transition over to the 3-4 defense obviously didn't effect their effectiveness in the 3-4 scheme either did it?

 

Why is everyone saying that we're saying that Clowney's going to be dropped into coverage regularly? Gawsh!

 

See what I did there?

 

Ware and Miller, while they don't cover often, they aren't complete garbage when they do. From what I've seen, it's mainly RB's, sometimes TE or spy. Either way, they don't stand there and crap themselves on a run-read. They have to be able to cover sometimes or they are limiting the playbook. If he can't cover, you guys are going to have a heck of time pretending he can when a team decides to spread you out on first down. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning Williams. He only ever played a handful of games in a 3-4 defense.

 

That said, I think the guy will make some great plays. There will be growing pains, however.

edit: wrong thread.