On NFL Network last night, Charlie Casserly made mention after a piece on Taylor Lewan that any of the top 3 Tackles this year are better than the top 2 last year. I believe he went so far as to say that Lewan would have been the 1st pick overall last year had he been in that draft. I like Casserly and respect his opinion, not that he is always right or anyone else for that matter. I thought that was a little unfair to an injured Joeckel, but I'm no expert on Tackle play. Fisher has definitely not played up to his number 1 billing that's for sure, but in his defense he was out of his natural LT position all year.
So, what say you, the message board GM's? Is the third best Tackle prospect this year, Taylor Lewan, better than the top 2 last year? Check your homerism at the door and give an honest assessment please. Where would you rank Joeckel in terms of being a prospect coming out with regards to the other 4 Tackles listed in the topic tags above?
If Taylor Lewan is better than the top 2 prospects in last year's entire draft, what does that say about the quality of this year's draft compared to last year's draft?
Would he be saying this if Fisher and Joeckel were already perceived to be top tackles in the league? Nope.
How could he know this? This is hindsight. Joekel barely played and Fisher played RT.
Only time will tell to be honest.
I watched Lewan a few times and honestly, I thought he was just okay. Would not surprise me if he is nothing more than a solid starter in the league. Robinson is a terrific athlete but is far from a finished product and has to prove he can be an NFL pass blocker.
When people thought Lewan might declare last year he was projected to go after Joeckel and Fisher so...no, this is a case of "This year's model is always better than last years".
Quote:When people thought Lewan might declare last year he was projected to go after Joeckel and Fisher so...no, this is a case of "This year's model is always better than last years".
You think this year's models are good....WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR!!!!
-Every year
I think thats pretty silly. Joeckel was long considered the #1 player in last years draft until about a week before the actual draft. Last year analysts were saying he is the next D'Brickishaw. (that still remains to be seen.) lets also keep in mind that if all 3 tackles in this draft would be taken ahead of him, one being jake matthews, who is the guy that joeckel outplayed and kept on the right side of the line. just doesnt make sense. joeckel, at college and draft level, is one of the highest rated OT prospects to hit the NFL in a few years.
Joeckel is the best LT out of all of them as a prospect.
Robinson can't pass protect, Matthews is more of a RT, and Lewan isn't as good as Joeckel.
Pure pass protection, Joeckel is hands-down the best prospect. Pass protection is the most important attribute for a LT.
Quote:You think this year's models are good....WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR!!!!
-Every year
lol exactly
Matthews has arms less than 1" shorter than Joeckel's, so obviously Matthews will be crap in the NFL.... <sar-chasm>
Quote:Matthews has arms less than 1" shorter than Joeckel's, so obviously Matthews will be crap in the NFL.... <sar-chasm>
so.......... you have resorted to bringing up how dumb you are in other threads now where people arent even talking about you? or do you want to just throw your matthews to the hall of fame agenda in this thread too? we can debate that if you would like, but i already posted here how matthews wasnt good enough to unseat joeckel while they were still both at A&M so an argument that he is the better prospect is gonna be tough. and dont try to come at me with "YEAH BUT THATS NOT AT RT, MATTHEWS WILL BE A HALL OF FAME RIGHT TACKLE!" based on what, tmd? "BASED ON WHAT I SAW AND IN MY OPINION HE WILL BE A HALL OF FAME CALIBER PLAYER!" oh ok TMD, based on what you saw, dan lefevour was going to be the qb steal of his draft and ryan mallett is going to be a stud, but theyre not, so based on what you saw doesnt mean much. i could go on.....
Quote:so.......... you have resorted to bringing up how dumb you are in other threads now where people arent even talking about you? or do you want to just throw your matthews to the hall of fame agenda in this thread too? we can debate that if you would like, but i already posted here how matthews wasnt good enough to unseat joeckel while they were still both at A&M so an argument that he is the better prospect is gonna be tough. and dont try to come at me with "YEAH BUT THATS NOT AT RT, MATTHEWS WILL BE A HALL OF FAME RIGHT TACKLE!" based on what, tmd? "BASED ON WHAT I SAW AND IN MY OPINION HE WILL BE A HALL OF FAME CALIBER PLAYER!" oh ok TMD, based on what you saw, dan lefevour was going to be the qb steal of his draft and ryan mallett is going to be a stud, but theyre not, so based on what you saw doesnt mean much. i could go on.....
dude.....relax, it was just a little sarcasm...
Quote:dude.....relax, it was just a little sarcasm...
i had a red bull.
Quote:I think thats pretty silly. Joeckel was long considered the #1 player in last years draft until about a week before the actual draft. Last year analysts were saying he is the next D'Brickishaw. (that still remains to be seen.) lets also keep in mind that if all 3 tackles in this draft would be taken ahead of him, one being jake matthews, who is the guy that joeckel outplayed and kept on the right side of the line. just doesnt make sense. joeckel, at college and draft level, is one of the highest rated OT prospects to hit the NFL in a few years.
Gonna play devil's advocate for a moment here... the "he outplayed Matthews" argument could be a case of the coach telling Matthews to wait his turn at LT so a very good prospect in Joeckel could get drafted as high as possible last year. Getting your players drafted as highly as possible helps the program with recruiting going forward and doesn't appear to have affected Matthews draft stock this year. I'm not saying this is the gospel truth of what transpired, but did you watch a ton of A&M games last year when they were both on the field to know whether one side was better protected than the other?
Quote:Gonna play devil's advocate for a moment here... the "he outplayed Matthews" argument could be a case of the coach telling Matthews to wait his turn at LT so a very good prospect in Joeckel could get drafted as high as possible last year. Getting your players drafted as highly as possible helps the program with recruiting going forward and doesn't appear to have affected Matthews draft stock this year. I'm not saying this is the gospel truth of what transpired, but did you watch a ton of A&M games last year when they were both on the field to know whether one side was better protected than the other?
alright i mean i dont want to call that stupid, but a program benefits more from winning. you put your best players out there at their best positions. the more wins you get, the more money the program gets for scholarships. more scholarships = better recruiting. they were both good, but the point is Joeckel was playing the premium position side. The best DEs he went against barely sniffed manziel. the same can be said for matthews but he played on the right side against the lesser rushers and thus, the less premium position.
I think they are about the same overall. Both are pretty good.
Last year, Joeckel was projected #1 overall tackle even before Lewan said he was returning. Lewan was projected as a mid 1st along with Eric Fisher. Matthews was projected top 5. You also had DJ Fluker a projected mid 1st.
It's just kind of the flavor you want.
Robinson has the highest upside because he is a great athlete and strong as a friggin ox...but as other have said he still needs quite a big of pass pro work.
Matthews is a great technician but does struggle against overpowering DEs and doesn't have the mean streak that a lot of people want in their olineman.
Lewan is good all around, not great at anything. Was looking like a pick in the teens based on his talent, until he came in surprisingly athletic at the combine.
Fisher has the second highest upside because he is a great athlete as well, but still has a lot of work to do to get there.
Joeckel is the best all around, already good in pass and run and has great technique, but doesn't have the athletic upside that Robinson or Fisher has.
I would personally rank them:
1. Robinson
2. Joeckel
3. Matthews
4. Lewan
5. Fisher
Not significantly better, but certainly in the same elite class of offensive line pro prospects. Matthews, Taylor, and Robinson are considered elite offensive linemen. Do we really have to ask?
Regardless of position, Lewan was going to be a top five draft pick last year, possibly the number one over-all. He stayed in school. The decision hurt his draft stock this year. He was down-graded to the mid-first.
Taylor re-established his lofty status among offensive tackle prospects with a solid combine. All scouts were impressed positively. He is noted for having a quirky personality, yet highly regarded for his big nasty effort.
Robinson was a very late riser. He was NOT regarded as a top OT prospect. He was NOT atop draft board even at mid-season.
He climbed up the draft board over-night thanks to national exposure he got during the SEC Championship and BCS Championships. He is currently over-valued as a tackle. He does not exhibit elite pass protection skills. Yet he is still a legitimate elite player regardless of position.
Jake Matthews is the top player in the draft. He is potentially a Hall of Fame candidate even prior to playing a single NFL play. All NFL experts and scouts generally endorse Jake as a ten to fifteen year All-Pro talent.
Yet Texas A&M got it right when they started Luke Joeckel at left tackle and Matthews at right.
Quote:Matthews has arms less than 1" shorter than Joeckel's, so obviously Matthews will be crap in the NFL.... <sar-chasm>
His father Bruce spent time as a offensive tackle in the pros. He was considered All-Pro out of USC. In fact, our own Tony Boselli was compared to Bruce prior to the 1995 NFL draft. Bruce moved inside and became a Hall of Famer.
Jake tracks almost identically to his dad. Like the senior Matthews, Jake has incredible versatility.
If we are fortunately enough to draft Jake, he provides Caldwell and Bradley an immediate Pro Bowl player.
Quote:His father Bruce spent time as a offensive tackle in the pros. He was considered All-Pro out of USC. In fact, our own Tony Boselli was compared to Bruce prior to the 1995 NFL draft. Bruce moved inside and became a Hall of Famer.
Jake tracks almost identically to his dad. Like the senior Matthews, Jake has incredible versatility.
If we are fortunately enough to draft Jake, he provides Caldwell and Bradley an immediate Pro Bowl player.
so as soon as he gets drafted they would name him to the pro bowl? that is pretty impressive. you have convinced me.