Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Are you still making the assertion that former NFL Head Coach Jon Gruden is incompetent when it comes to developing/knowing the QB position?

 

The assertion I made is in my post. Don't get so offended bro.

Quote:To say Gruden never developed a QB is ridiculous.  Can anyone name his starting QBs his first year as head coach of the Raiders?  Jeff George and Donald Hollas.  No one here has even heard of Donald Hollas.  Ie they had nobody. The next year they bring in Rich Gannon who was a career backup journeyman loser.  And within 3 years Gannon is the MVP.  of the entire NFL.

 

Now he has this TV show and he talks up all the QBs on there(as if he started bashing them they would continue to accept his invitation to be there).  And now all of a sudden because he was so nice Tim Tebow and Blaine Gabbert he now no longer has any credibility.  Gimme a break.

 

Don't get all bent out of shape.  It's not worth it. 

 

Gannon wasn't some lowly slug Gruden resurrected from the heap. Gannon took the Vikings to the post season as their starter before arriving in Oakland.  He did help Gannon achieve the most success of his career in Oakland, but I wouldn't say he developed him.  Then what?  He's been living off of that since he left the Raiders. 

 

I couldn't care less if he was nice to Tebow or Gabbert.  It's a show.  That's what he's expected to do regardless of who the QB is he's working with.  Still, he rarely nails it with his analysis of any QB because he's more prone to focus on the positive, and less likely to pick at the flaws for any of these guys. 

 

If he's gushing about Manziel, he'll do it for Bridgewater.  Same with the other QB prospects he's worked with.  I don't think Gruden is a very good evaluator of talent.  Just my opinion.

Quote:The assertion I made is in my post. Don't get so offended bro.

 

No offense taken, I just find it funny how message board members can question the credibility of a professional coach, now of course, if that professional coach says something that fits the message board member's narrative, the coach then becomes a genius.

Quote:I can't recall a single young QB he has ever developed.

Well, yes.

 

There's Mark Brunell and some guy named Brett Favre.

Quote:Are you still making the assertion that former NFL Head Coach Jon Gruden is incompetent when it comes to developing/knowing the QB position?

 

I think his point was pretty clear.  Gruden did not develop Gannon.  He was already an established QB in the league who had seen some success already before arriving in Oakland.

Quote:Well, yes.

 

There's Mark Brunell and some guy named Brett Favre.

 

The special assistant coach / wide receivers helped to develop Brunell and Favre?  Who knew a receivers coach could have that much influence?

Quote:To say Gruden never developed a QB is ridiculous.  Can anyone name his starting QBs his first year as head coach of the Raiders?  Jeff George and Donald Hollas.  No one here has even heard of Donald Hollas.  Ie they had nobody. The next year they bring in Rich Gannon who was a career backup journeyman loser.  And within 3 years Gannon is the MVP.  of the entire NFL.

 

Now he has this TV show and he talks up all the QBs on there(as if he started bashing them they would continue to accept his invitation to be there).  And now all of a sudden because he was so nice Tim Tebow and Blaine Gabbert he now no longer has any credibility.  Gimme a break.

 

For the record, I assert he never developed a YOUNG QB.

 

To my recollection, he has not taken a QB as a rookie or first year player and developed him into a pro bowl passer.

 

All of his successes have come from getting the most out of veteran QBs, who have been in the NFL for years, learned technique, film study, etc. from others.

 

Rich Gannon is a case in point.

Who cares about Jon Gruden anyway?

Quote:No offense taken, I just find it funny how message board members can question the credibility of a professional coach, now of course, if that professional coach says something that fits the message board member's narrative, the coach then becomes a genius.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about

Quote:If he's gushing about Manziel, he'll do it for Bridgewater.  Same with the other QB prospects he's worked with.  I don't think Gruden is a very good evaluator of talent.  Just my opinion.

 

IMO he gravitates to the positives, since those are the things a coach is going to focus in on to try and get the most out of players.

 

He'll say a few things to make them uncomfortable just to see how they react, but he chums back up to them pretty quickly.  More of a good cop/bad cop charade than a bootcamp style complete tear down/build up for sure.

Rich Gannon barely had any success before he went to Oakland. Suggesting that he was anywhere near the player he was before Oakland is just crazy. 

Quote:No offense taken, I just find it funny how message board members can question the credibility of a professional coach, now of course, if that professional coach says something that fits the message board member's narrative, the coach then becomes a genius.

 

Hold on a second.

 

I do not assert any message board poster, including myself, is more of a football authority than Gruden.

 

For that matter, I don't knock him as a head coach overall.

 

He won as a head coach in Oakland and won in Tampa.

 

I made the assertion I don't recall him ever developing a young QB.

 

I still haven't seen any examples where he has.

Quote:For the record, I assert he never developed a YOUNG QB.

 

To my recollection, he has not taken a QB as a rookie or first year player and developed him into a pro bowl passer.

 

All of his successes have come from getting the most out of veteran QBs, who have been in the NFL for years, learned technique, film study, etc. from others.

 

Rich Gannon is a case in point.

 

And Brad Johnson, although he actually had more productivity under Dungy than Gruden.   

Quote:Gannon started for the Chiefs the year before he went to Oakland. He was 34 years old and had played decent in KC. Gruden didn't develop him.

 

 

He did start for the Chiefs, was lousy, got benched, and was then released.  The Raiders picked up him as a free agent.  So Gruden took a guy that had been a career journeyman, had never sniffed 3000 yards, might have eclipsed a QB rating of 80 in one season, and turned him immediately into a guy that was throwing for close to 4000 yards a season and was league MVP.  What is your defintion of "develop" then?  Or in your mind can a guy post 30 never "develop"?

 

 

Quote: 

Gannon wasn't some lowly slug Gruden resurrected from the heap. Gannon took the Vikings to the post season as their starter before arriving in Oakland.  He did help Gannon achieve the most success of his career in Oakland, but I wouldn't say he developed him.  Then what?  He's been living off of that since he left the Raiders. 

 

Did he?  You mean the year he started 12 games, threw 12 TDs and 13 picks and was benched a month before they made the playoffs in favor of Sean Salisbury?  And was then traded away for a late round conditional pick in the offseason?  

 

I'm not gonna preach that Gruden is some authority on QBs but this idea that he helped a guy achieve a little success is nuts.  Gannon's career before Gruden was no better than Chad Henne's.  But was then turned into the league MVP.  Lets get real here people. 

If he learns to slide and run out of bounds, the gamble will be worth it. If he's taking crushingblows like RG3 did, then not so much.

Quote:He did start for the Chiefs, was lousy, got benched, and was then released.  The Raiders picked up him as a free agent.  So Gruden took a guy that had been a career journeyman, had never sniffed 3000 yards, might have eclipsed a QB rating of 80 in one season, and turned him immediately into a guy that was throwing for close to 4000 yards a season and was league MVP.  What is your defintion of "develop" then?  Or in your mind can a guy post 30 never "develop"?

 

 

 

Did he?  You mean the year he started 12 games, threw 12 TDs and 13 picks and was benched a month before they made the playoffs in favor of Sean Salisbury?  And was then traded away for a late round conditional pick in the offseason?  

 

I'm not gonna preach that Gruden is some authority on QBs but this idea that he helped a guy achieve a little success is nuts.  Gannon's career before Gruden was no better than Chad Henne's.  But was then turned into the league MVP.  Lets get real here people. 

 

Exactly. Gruden worked wonders with Gannon, can't believe people are taking that away from Gruden just because Gannon was in his 30's.

Are there some people related to Gruden on the message board??

Quote:Hold on a second.

 

I do not assert any message board poster, including myself, is more of a football authority than Gruden.

 

For that matter, I don't knock him as a head coach overall.

 

He won as a head coach in Oakland and won in Tampa.

 

I made the assertion I don't recall him ever developing a young QB.

 

I still haven't seen any examples where he has.

 

I was talking about this comment "Good Lord, if so, any shred of credibility Gruden had, which granted wasn't much.....is permanently gone" TMD made, wasn't referring to you.

Quote:He did start for the Chiefs, was lousy, got benched, and was then released.  The Raiders picked up him as a free agent.  So Gruden took a guy that had been a career journeyman, had never sniffed 3000 yards, might have eclipsed a QB rating of 80 in one season, and turned him immediately into a guy that was throwing for close to 4000 yards a season and was league MVP.  What is your defintion of "develop" then?  Or in your mind can a guy post 30 never "develop"?

 

 

 

Did he?  You mean the year he started 12 games, threw 12 TDs and 13 picks and was benched a month before they made the playoffs in favor of Sean Salisbury?  And was then traded away for a late round conditional pick in the offseason?  

 

I'm not gonna preach that Gruden is some authority on QBs but this idea that he helped a guy achieve a little success is nuts.  Gannon's career before Gruden was no better than Chad Henne's.  But was then turned into the league MVP.  Lets get real here people. 

 

Bingo, it's similar to what Mark Trestman did in Chicago with Josh freakin McCown last year, QB's never stop developing, and Trestman (like Gruden) should get credit for the work they did.

Quote:He did start for the Chiefs, was lousy, got benched, and was then released.  The Raiders picked up him as a free agent.  So Gruden took a guy that had been a career journeyman, had never sniffed 3000 yards, might have eclipsed a QB rating of 80 in one season, and turned him immediately into a guy that was throwing for close to 4000 yards a season and was league MVP.  What is your defintion of "develop" then?  Or in your mind can a guy post 30 never "develop"?

 

 

He was 34. Had started for two years. He had success in KC. He started games, he won games. He had a positive TD/INT ratio. And this was 20 years ago, before QB's put up video game type stats. I think Gruden saw that Gannon was a great fit in that dink and dunk west coast offense. I give him credit for that. But he didn't develop him. He was a plug in starter.