Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Im pleased with the job caldwell has done so far. Finding multiple 2nd - 3rd Tier guys that can come in a contribute

When this team just completed a lowly 4 win season, it is hard to pinpoint how this roster today is better than a roster from the past.  It's not better, but it was solely in the first year of a significant rebuild.  The arrow appears to be pointing up....cautiously.  I do remember quite well how elated all (or most) were on this board after Gene's first draft.  I think more of my own personal optimism has to do with believing in Gus, than trying to point to a position(s) and determine if it is better or worse. 

So little.

Quote:Monroe didn't play well his rookie year.  Bradfield has only played OK when he was playing spot duty at RT.  Paztor and Joeckel have played better than Bradfield (source PFF).  
Joekel and Paztor only played together for 10 minutes.  How can you say they are better than a line with Monroe and Bradfield?


 

 

Greg Jones as our fullback I'll give you that one, but he was from the Shack era so Gene gets no credit there.  

Jones was far better than anyone we currently have, but I meant the Mularkey fullback...  I can't even remember who that fullback was, but he made just as many plays and led to better rushing totals than our current Hawaiian.


 

If you're saying that having two guys equal the play of one is a push, then you don't know what you're talking about.  Cyp being able to do the load of two guys is exactly why we drafted him.  He's on his way up, and already outplayed the other guys we had back there since Darius (who was still a liability in coverage).

I was just comparing SS since we haven't changed starting FSs (Prosinskie).  Guy, Alexander, Greene and Landry all played about the same as Cyprian last year.


 

Other than one lucky break in his first game, Cox was horrible his rookie year.  He played more average his second, and got benched after that.  San Diego benched him after giving him a payday and cut him after last season.  Cox was a fail on EVERY account since it took 2 picks to get him.

Gratz has been just as injured as Cox always was!  I think Ball and Blackmon are decent players, and are about the same as Mike Harris and Will Middleton.  So I guess I should've given Caldwell a push here.


 

Daryl Smith is better than Geno Hayes.  However Daryl's clock is ticking so there's no telling when his wheels were going to fall off.  Again, a Shack era guy.  Gene gets no credit.  

You're right, Daryl is getting old, but 33 year old Daryl Smith is still better than 28 year old Geno Hayes.  I would rather have had 3 more years of good player Daryl than 3 years of average Geno.


 

Kinghton/Alualu are not better at the inside DT positions of Marks/Miller.  Knighton was drafted for the wrong position, which was fixed last season by a coach who finally knows what he's talking about.  Knighton played great for one year and got lazy, which is why he got benched before he left for Denver.  Push.

AluAlu stinks for both GMs.  Knighton is better than Marks or Miller, so he helps cancel out AluAlu.  Knighton and AluAlu = Marks and Miller.

 

 

 

Quote:I think the biggest difference between Caldwell and Gene is Caldwell has done exactly what he said he was going to. And has been very systematic about the process. You can tell he truly has a plan. Now whether that plan works out or not who knows.


I don't think what you said about his first draft class is unfair. Joekel while hurt didn't play that much and what we saw, RT, he struggled. But that wasn't his natural position. He is a wait and see player.


Gratz was injured a lot, but he showed as much promise as any draft pick when he did play. He has got to stay healthy this year.


Cyprien wowed in practice, set high expectations, was disappointing in first half of season, but showed improvement. Hopefully he continues to get more comfortable so he can let his physical abilities take over.


It is just like most draft classes. Lots of projecting and wait and see.

 

I'm not being fair to Joekel, but it's not fair to make him better than Monroe after pre-draft hype and 10 minutes of action.  Jury is still out...  But we did waste a 1st rnd pick on him when we already had a good young player at the position.

 

I agree 100% with you on the rest of it.  That's why I think everyone should calm down with the praising of Caldwell.  Lets wait and see what he does.  I'm not going to blindly praise him on everything he does.  He hasn't earned that yet.

 

I find it hysterical that people think that since we gutted all but 9 players from our 5-11, 2011 team; now we're headed in the right direction after going 4-12.

Considering the fact that Caldwell has insisted people not use the term rebuild, and that this is more of a "build", I think it's clear that when the dust settles on this process in the next year or two, there will probably only be a couple of guys left from the pre-Dave era. 

 

He ripped the bandaid off last year to kick start this thing.  He hasn't slowed down since.

Quote:When this team just completed a lowly 4 win season, it is hard to pinpoint how this roster today is better than a roster from the past.  It's not better, but it was solely in the first year of a significant rebuild.  The arrow appears to be pointing up....cautiously.  I do remember quite well how elated all (or most) were on this board after Gene's first draft.  I think more of my own personal optimism has to do with believing in Gus, than trying to point to a position(s) and determine if it is better or worse. 

 

It was almost identical after that first season under Gene. 

 

Anyone that tries to act like it wasn't is LYING. 

Quote:It was almost identical after that first season under Gene. 

 

Anyone that tries to act like it wasn't is LYING. 

Smith didn't blow the roster up the way Caldwell did.  He couldn't since he was at least partly involved in building it.  Caldwell had no loyalties to deal with.

Did anyone really expect a General Manager to come to an organization that just won two games and keep the roster intact?

Quote:Did anyone really expect a General Manager to come to an organization that just won two games and keep the roster intact?

 

I certainly hope not, but based on some of the complaints we heard as players were allowed to leave last year, there are a few who felt we just needed to work around the edges and not blow it all up. 

Quote:Smith didn't blow the roster up the way Caldwell did.  He couldn't since he was at least partly involved in building it.  Caldwell had no loyalties to deal with.

 

I remember lots of roster turnover and many of Gene's initial draft starting or playing significant roles that first year. 

 

The optimism was very similar to this same point in Caldwell's regime. 

 

The only difference to this point, is that Caldwell was more active in FA the 2nd year than Gene was, IIRC. 

 

The Alualu selection was the first real issue many had with Gene Smith's regime. We're approaching a similar point in Caldwell's tenure, so this draft will be interesting to see how it matches or contrasts with Gene's 2nd draft. 

Quote:I remember lots of roster turnover and many of Gene's initial draft starting or playing significant roles that first year. 

 

The optimism was very similar to this same point in Caldwell's regime. 

 

The only difference to this point, is that Caldwell was more active in FA the 2nd year than Gene was, IIRC. 

 

The Alualu selection was the first real issue many had with Gene Smith's regime. We're approaching a similar point in Caldwell's tenure, so this draft will be interesting to see how it matches or contrasts with Gene's 2nd draft. 

 

He didn't blow it up.  There was turnover, but nothing quite like what Caldwell did during his first year as the GM, and that purge continued into year 2.  Gene was a guy who nibbled around the edges and didn't do what was necessary when he took over because he couldn't.  He was connected to many of the players on the roster during Harris' tenure.

 

The optimism is the ONLY thing that's similar because people were just happy to be moving on from Shack Harris.  There were high expectations that Gene Smith would right the ship based on his own comments about disagreeing with several moves Harris had made over the years.  Unfortunately, Gene Smith couldn't get over being the subordinate, and was resistant to making the kind of bold moves that needed to be made to turn things around quickly.  In the end, he was just more of the same thing we had with Harris with a bad haircut.

 

I don't care if Caldwell drafts a player who isn't a popular selection for the fans.  What I do care about is that he get the pick right.  Smith picked Alualu, and if Tyson had remained healthy, it's certainly possible he could have proven to be better than what we saw initially.  Unfortunately, Del Rio broke the new player in the first session of practice at his rookie training camp, and the tone was set. 

 

Gene Smith was always the guy who wanted to be the smartest guy in the room.  It's ironic that you of all people hate him so much since you're basically his virtual clone on a message board.  And as is the case for you, what Gene thought, and what the reality were turned out to be two completely different things.  He tried to out-think others constantly, and it seems like it never produced any success. 

 

I don't get the sense that Caldwell considers himself the smartest guy in the room.  I think he's just smart, and he recognizes that there's more than just popularity of a player involved in who he selects.  He's made smart decisions to date with his personnel moves, and I would expect that to continue as he steps things up this year. 

 

Naturally, he'll disappoint you no matter what because you're a Gene Smith clone who thinks you're smarter.

Quote:I remember lots of roster turnover and many of Gene's initial draft starting or playing significant roles that first year.


The optimism was very similar to this same point in Caldwell's regime.


The only difference to this point, is that Caldwell was more active in FA the 2nd year than Gene was, IIRC.


The Alualu selection was the first real issue many had with Gene Smith's regime. We're approaching a similar point in Caldwell's tenure, so this draft will be interesting to see how it matches or contrasts with Gene's 2nd draft.

Genes turnover is nothing like Caldwells. Not sure why you are trying to make that argument. You can argue optimism is similar, but Caldwell and Gene are not doing things similarly.

Quote:Genes turnover is nothing like Caldwells. Not sure why you are trying to make that argument. You can argue optimism is similar, but Caldwell and Gene are not doing things similarly.

Arguing for the sake of arguing is a trademark maneuver. 

So this is Dave's team now, whatever success of failure is due to his team building ability.  Obviously he has been limited in time but not in resources.

The Gene Smith era was so horrible that Jacksonville should have a yearly holiday on the day that piece of trash was officially fired..

Quote:The Gene Smith era was so horrible that Jacksonville should have a yearly holiday on the day that piece of trash was officially fired..

It was not only a mess on the field but it was a mess on this message board.  People like me constantly complained about that idiot and got called every name in the book for it.  The guy was a cancer that set this team back years.

Quote:That list is interesting. Who would have thought the Colts could remain so competitive while undergoing so much turnover. It must be due to ...

 

a weak division

 

a very good QB

 

luck and/or a very good QB - probably a combination of both (I think the Colts are something like 15-2 in one-score games; not sure if that can continue. You'd think they will revert to the mean at some point.)

Aren't those the same?

Quote:Aren't those the same?

 

Luck and good fortune - yeah, those could be considered the same.

Quote:Luck and good fortune - yeah, those could be considered the same.

I was just playing off that his name is also Luck. 

There can be no humanly way that Dave can fail as hard in his second draft as Gene did with his. That was just a colossus failure