Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Ok so one of the things that I have seen people on this board say is they don't want Mccarron because he is plays with elite talent where as Bridgewater does not. The question I have is why is that not said about Manziel? He had a top 5 OL picked last year, a probable top 10 OL pick this year, a top 10 WR in Evans. I cannot think of a single offensive player (not saying they don't exist) even being talked about in the first for Alabama. Mettenberger also has 2 probable first round WR's...

 

Now I do not follow college football like most of you do, so I am not sure how many players on each team actually declared for the draft, but from what I can see from this draft Manziel and Mettenberger both seem to be playing with top tier players. Why are people not saying look at what Mccarron had to work with and look what he did? It seems to me that he had less to work with than what Manziel & Mettenberger had, or am I wrong? 

 

Thanks.

It is not that people don't like McCarron because of his supporting cast. They don't like him because he's bad himself. He doesn't have any elite attribute (to use an argument I've seen wrongly used about another QB), he is inept out of the structure of the offense and not accurate under pressure.

You're right about him having some other good players on offense, but the real insight comes on the other side of the ball. Look at how the defenses of these three QBs stack up.

 

Alabama defense ranked 4th in the nation

Louisville defense ranked 2nd in that nation

A&M defense ranked 96th in the nation

 

With both AJ and Teddy, their teams defenses were better/ranked higher than their offenses. Case in point, only once did a team score more than 25-points against Louisville all season last year(UCF), and Louisville lost that game.

Mccarrons even worse though. Take out the A&M game and their dreadful bowl game, and Alabama's opponents last year averaged 6.5 points per game against the Tide defense. For Teddy, other than the UCF game, the Louisville defense allowed only an average of 10 points per game.

 

In other words, the strongest points of Mccarron's and Teddy's teams were the defenses(both their coaches-Saban and Strong are defense-minded coaches). There was rarely much pressure put on these guys to ever 'carry the team'. Their defenses did most the work, if they played 'well' at the QB position, their team usually won.

 

In complete contrast, Manziel and company were required to score upwards of 40-points per game just to be in the game.

Listen, when the [BAD WORD REMOVED] Rice Owls score 31 points on you, you know it's bad, lol. The SAm Houston State Bearkats(who the hell are they?) scored 28 points. Both Miss State and Auburn dropped 41 points on A&M, and Duke(yes the same Duke who scored 7 points against FSU in the ACC title game), scored a whopping 48 points against A&M defense in the bowl game.

 

IMO, you can have two of the best OLs in the game, and a top 10 WR, and still not be able to score the 40 points plus per game in the hardest conference in the league, every game, just to be in contention to win. And in almost every game, Manziel had to rise to the occasion, make a dramatic comeback, or lift the team with an almost herculean effort.
 
This post is already long, so I'll just take the Bama game for a reference:

Quote:Coming into the Alabama-A&M game, the Tide were ranked #1 in the nation, had the number 1 defense in the nation, and were the defending college champs. That day, Manziel went on to total 562 total yard of offense against them. It was the single greatest performance ever allowed by any Alabama team in 121 years of Tide football. It was the second most total yards by a single player in SEC history, and it ranks only behind Manziel's own 576-yard game against Louisiana Tech(which is first in the record books).

 

You can watch the full Bama A&m game here. And I promise if you do, you'll never look at the kid the same again  :thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOKTKGFtoNw

 

All that said, McCarron and Bridgewater are both studs in their own rights, and I want BOTH on Jaguars next year. I like both of them personally. Not hate on them, just remarkable what MAnziel, Evans, and company did with the odds on defense stacked so heavily against them.

While I understand that their defenses helped them win many games my question to that A&M Alabama game would be this.

 

Alabama had a top rated defense, what made it so Johnny was able to not get beat down? Was it his top 10 LT that kept him standing long enough to deliver the ball to his top 10 wr? What did that defense do to help Alabama win that game? Does Mccarron get any love for that game as well? I mean the stats show he completed 69% of his passes, he had no picks..and threw 4 tds. I know those numbers aren't as good as Manziels, but it sure seems to me that Mccarron carried his team when the defense couldn't stop Manziel. 

 

The point in this is to debate about 1 game, and it's not even to say that I think Mccarron is better than Manziel. The point is to inquire if Manziel has a top 10 wr and top 10 ot....why is it that people say Mccarron simply manages the games? Does he have top 10 players with him?

All good questions Jagsfan. I'll try to respond in parts

 

Quote:Alabama had a top rated defense, what made it so Johnny was able to not get beat down?

I don't want to sound trite, but I can only describe Manziel in that game as magic. There's no rhyme or reason that he should have done as good as he did, O-line and Wide Receivers aside.

Saban had been planning, no literally coniving to stop him for over a year, to get his revenge. And well, he didn't. I've never seen a player be so unstoppable than during that game. I personally love Saban. I'm actually a bigger Tide fan than I am A&M fan. But  I think few if any who watched that entire game would ever walk away talking about the 0-line or the receiving core of A&M.

Football is and will always be a team game. But if you were ever looking for a '1 man show' on a collegiate football field, that game would likely be the closest we'll ever get.

 

It got to the point in the game where Alabama simply couldn't stop him anymore. If they got through the A&M o-line or blitzed him, Manziel made fools of them

 
 
If the o-line held up, MAnziel threw, and threw, and threw(he broke his own Texas A&M record for most passing yards in that game)

Quote:Does Mccarron get any love for that game as well? I mean the stats show he completed 69% of his passes, he had no picks..and threw 4 tds. I know those numbers aren't as good as Manziels, but it sure seems to me that Mccarron carried his team when the defense couldn't stop Manziel. 

Mccarron did have a hell of a game, and nobody should take that away from him. But it is important to keep in mind that most opposing QBs who played A&M last year had their "best games of the season" playing them. 

For example, you remember that duke QB who went 20/40 for 138 yards against FSU last year? He threw for over 400 yards against A&M in the bowl game, lol. 

 

Again, taking nothing away from Mccarron. But if we're going to compare, it's very different to say that Mccarron had a great game against the 96th ranked defense, and saying Manziel had a record-breaking game against the best defense in the nation.

Quote:The point in this is to debate about 1 game, and it's not even to say that I think Mccarron is better than Manziel. The point is to inquire if Manziel has a top 10 wr and top 10 ot....why is it that people say Mccarron simply manages the games? Does he have top 10 players with him?

I think every good team is going to have good players.

Aaron Murray had AJ Green for a few years(who I consider far better than Evans in just about every way), and never achieved the heights Manziel did.

Alabama has produced six All-Americans and seven drafted offensive linemen, including 4 first-round selections, over the past 7-years.

 

 

I just think it's hard to be the QB at Alabama, who under Saban, will always be a run-first offense, and it's defense the real bread-and-butter of the team. Alabama QBs will always be overlooked, and that's not AJ's fault. Listen, I think Louisville is reeling now that Bridgewater left(maybe the best Cardinal QB ever?). And I think A&M fans realize it will be a long-long time before they see another play like Manziel(maybe the best A&M QB ever?). Sadly, i don't think many Bama fans are committing suicide with news that Mccarrons gone. The QB before Mccarron won a championship under Saban's top ranked rushing offense and defense, and I'd be willing to bet the QB who succeeds AJ will win one too. Y'know what I mean?

 

You're right, Manziel has certainly had some weapons around him, but not anymore than most top teams have. And while A&M has certainly had a few good draft classes this year and last, it still greatly pales in comparison to Alabama's streak under AJ's four years there.

Alabama has had the most draft picks of any college team in the past four years (29). Then again, the Crimson Tide also lead in draft picks for the past three years (22) and two years (17).

 

 

Hope this helps to clarify my position, and i do hope i answered your question. Tell me if I didn't.