Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:The eyeball test says, we're not. 

not to mention our win/loss record...

Can you imagine us having a much improved line? We get a couple more seconds of suspense as we anticipate a wounded duck by Bortles

Quote:DC has focused heavily and invested in the O-line over the past few seasons. It just hasn't panned out like we/he hoped yet.


The turnover in that group has been immense in the past 4 seasons. It just hasn't worked (although it's better in some spots).


Joeckel-Beadles-Bowanko-Linder-Paztor


Joeckel-Beadles-Wiz-Linder/Cann-Parnell


Beachum-Joeckel-Linder-Cann-Parnell



DC has been trying to get that unit fixed. But, it still has some more work to be done.

DC may well have been investing heavily in the o-line, but most of these have been more of a 'stop gap' nature than actual upgrades. I mean, when your o-line couldn't block a group of girl scouts, how good really is the 'upgrade'? And Joeckel for example; he was drafted high but he never actually fit the pro level profile of a good o-linesman. He simply wasn't very big for that position and consequently got pushed around too easily. His selection may have been acceptable at a lower round, but a first round pick for a guy who doesn't have the basic 'goods'? Dave is limited by whats available obviously, but he needs to select more intelligently than he has been instead of looking so hard at what has been done by the candidate elsewhere. He needs to pay a lot more attention to the fundamental physical attributes/skills of the player instead of a resume of what they did in college or on team 'x' somewhere. 

 

Clearly, I'm not a professional sports manager and don't have all the resources at my disposal that Dave does; I'm not one who collects the tidbits of information on each player as a hobby and spouts them off on this message board in an impressive manner. I'm just say'n that from my lowly fan stand point that it appears that our GM needs to buckle down and make some good picks. Our win/loss record says we really can't afford any more 'stop gap/ scrub' guys on the roster, especially on our o-line.

 

'wars are won in the trenches'

Yeah.  Outside of drafting Joeckel, Caldwell's picks and signings along the line have been largely of the "stop-gap" variety.  

Though he scored with Linder and has a solid player in Cann, he hasn't devoted enough of his draft or FA assets to bolster the line.

I hope we see a quality pick prior to the 4th round (hopefully 2nd round) and a signing from the top of the FA crop to help this line open running lanes. 

Quote:DC may well have been investing heavily in the o-line, but most of these have been more of a 'stop gap' nature than actual upgrades. I mean, when your o-line couldn't block a group of girl scouts, how good really is the 'upgrade'? And Joeckel for example; he was drafted high but he never actually fit the pro level profile of a good o-linesman. He simply wasn't very big for that position and consequently got pushed around too easily. His selection may have been acceptable at a lower round, but a first round pick for a guy who doesn't have the basic 'goods'? Dave is limited by whats available obviously, but he needs to select more intelligently than he has been instead of looking so hard at what has been done by the candidate elsewhere. He needs to pay a lot more attention to the fundamental physical attributes/skills of the player instead of a resume of what they did in college or on team 'x' somewhere.


Clearly, I'm not a professional sports manager and don't have all the resources at my disposal that Dave does; I'm not one who collects the tidbits of information on each player as a hobby and spouts them off on this message board in an impressive manner. I'm just say'n that from my lowly fan stand point that it appears that our GM needs to buckle down and make some good picks. Our win/loss record says we really can't afford any more 'stop gap/ scrub' guys on the roster, especially on our o-line.


'wars are won in the trenches'

Agree with you.

He's done a lot of turnover at the O-line positions. But, it just hasn't been good enough (although it is better than before).


They really have to do something at RT, IMO.

Many people like Parnell, but I just don't think he's good enough there. He's a backup/depth guy, to me.

To piggyback of what someone else said today. There is a link between young QBs developing and having a very good line in front of them. Just look at Carr/Mariota/Cousins/Dak

Quote:Agree with you.

He's done a lot of turnover at the O-line positions. But, it just hasn't been good enough (although it is better than before).


They really have to do something at RT, IMO.

Many people like Parnell, but I just don't think he's good enough there. He's a backup/depth guy, to me.

 

Yes. 

 

LG and RT upgrades are required, IMO.  

You win and lose the game in the trenches. PERIOD

Quote:Numbers say we're top half in the league.

 

2-12 are the numbers and only numbers meaningful

 

and i agree, the oline isnt giving BB anytime and its turning him into another blaine G, hes feeling the rush too early and now checking down on almost all throws. 3 and 18 and were throwing 5 yard passes.

I really don't even think Parnell is that bad. He struggled in the horrible physical matchup against Ford, but he is so huge he is always going to struggle against a type like that (obviously so do most RTs). Other than that game and the game directly after he has been fine. I haven't forgotten the first 8 games of the season when he only gave up one total sack and everyone was singing his praises. I think that player has returned to form for the most part. 

 

Not saying he isn't upgradeable because he is, but if we're stuck with him again it's not the end of the world. Just give him help against the smaller, blazing fast pass rushers that are becoming more of the trend on the right side and we can survive him. 

Quote:I really don't even think Parnell is that bad. He struggled in the horrible physical matchup against Ford, but he is so huge he is always going to struggle against a type like that (obviously so do most RTs). Other than that game and the game directly after he has been fine. I haven't forgotten the first 8 games of the season when he only gave up one total sack and everyone was singing his praises. I think that player has returned to form for the most part. 

 

Not saying he isn't upgradeable because he is, but if we're stuck with him again it's not the end of the world. Just give him help against the smaller, blazing fast pass rushers that are becoming more of the trend on the right side and we can survive him. 

 

 

It's not all about pass protection though. The guy can't run block. 

Quote:not to mention our win/loss record...

 

Which says nothing about the offensive line's pass blocking.

Quote:I really don't even think Parnell is that bad. He struggled in the horrible physical matchup against Ford, but he is so huge he is always going to struggle against a type like that (obviously so do most RTs). Other than that game and the game directly after he has been fine. I haven't forgotten the first 8 games of the season when he only gave up one total sack and everyone was singing his praises. I think that player has returned to form for the most part. 

 

Not saying he isn't upgradeable because he is, but if we're stuck with him again it's not the end of the world. Just give him help against the smaller, blazing fast pass rushers that are becoming more of the trend on the right side and we can survive him. 

 

they said he's allowed like 6 sacks and has had 6 holding calls against him this year alone.

plus he can't run block.

Quote:2-12 are the numbers and only numbers meaningful

 

and i agree, the oline isnt giving BB anytime and its turning him into another blaine G, hes feeling the rush too early and now checking down on almost all throws. 3 and 18 and were throwing 5 yard passes.

 

2-12 says nothing about one position group. The whole team lost 12 games.

Quote:2-12 says nothing about one position group. The whole team lost 12 games.

 

It does, however, say a lot about the guy who promised he was going to build a "sustainable winner" through his efforts.

Quote:Who forgot about the o-line?


Its talked about literally every day among Jags fans.

Everybody who understands big-boy football has been beating this subject to death for a LONG time.


Fix the line, fix the offensive struggles. The skill players can hang with almost anyone out there.

Quote:I really don't even think Parnell is that bad. He struggled in the horrible physical matchup against Ford, but he is so huge he is always going to struggle against a type like that (obviously so do most RTs). Other than that game and the game directly after he has been fine. I haven't forgotten the first 8 games of the season when he only gave up one total sack and everyone was singing his praises. I think that player has returned to form for the most part. 

 

Not saying he isn't upgradeable because he is, but if we're stuck with him again it's not the end of the world. Just give him help against the smaller, blazing fast pass rushers that are becoming more of the trend on the right side and we can survive him.

I agree with this assesment. I would argue the scheme/communication on blitzes/stunts has been a much bigger issue than one on one matchups in pass protection. Also, what they asked of Parnell in the KC game was criminal.


That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to a Conklin level RT being brought in.

Quote:I agree with this assesment. I would argue the scheme/communication on blitzes/stunts has been a much bigger issue than one on one matchups in pass protection. Also, what they asked of Parnell in the KC game was criminal.


That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to a Conklin level RT being brought in.

If Ryan Ramczyk is there in the 2nd I think Dave might pull the trigger on him.  Not sure if he makes it to our 2nd pick though

Quote:2-12 are the numbers and only numbers meaningful


and i agree, the oline isnt giving BB anytime and its turning him into another blaine G, hes feeling the rush too early and now checking down on almost all throws. 3 and 18 and were throwing 5 yard passes.

So does Ramsey suck too since we are 2-12

Quote:Which says nothing about the offensive line's pass blocking.

It only says nothing to an air head, for everyone else, it suggests that we're deficient in one of (if not the most) key areas of the offense. Look, this stuff isn't rocket science and football analyst have known this for ages; a team can be only average in many aspects of the game but a good line will make those average players look better. 

 

That's why truisms like 'wars are won in the trenches' become truisms!