A WR at three is not what I call maximum value when he's only going to be involved in 8-10 snaps a game.
Also, considering this draft is being described as the deepest WR draft maybe ever...that sort of flies in the face of your value claim as well.
Jags draft notes:
- Obviously, Caldwell has done A LOT to bolster the pass rush in Free Agency. I think that rules out Mack at #3, and sets up the drafting of a QB or WR in round 1. Bortles is gone here, Bridgewater is falling and Caldwell probably won't touch Manziel. That means we take Watkins and kill two birds with one stone. We get a replacement playmaker for Blackmon, who many never be back, and we get a maximum impact star player we badly need.
- In Round 2, I believe Caldwell will get antsy for a QB and slightly overdraft Jimmy Garoppolo so as not to risk losing the chance to get a talented QB to groom. This will be great situation for Garoppolo to come in, sit behind Henne for half the season or the whole year, and learn the NFL. Many are comparing Jimmy to Tony Romo due to their great vision, reaction, quick release, but less than ideal size and athleticism.
- In Round 3, we HAVE to take an interior O-lineman if we have not yet. Here Center Weston Richburg falls in our laps, and is a great fit for our ZBS. Ironically enough, CBSSports compares him to Brad Meester in their write up on him.
- TE Arthur Lynch is a big guy who can block and catch and will be a great addition to the TE Corps.
- With all the extra picks we have, I don't see how Caldwell will not trade away some picks to move up a round at some point. In this scenario, it happens in round 4 when he sees an opportunity to get QB Brett Smith, who impressed at his Pro Day. We give up a 5th, 6th, and 7th rounder. No problem.
- Jags are said to have an interest in UCF RB Storm Johnson, and he would be a good pick in the 5th. I think he would make team and could be a valuable fill-in if Gerhart gets hurt.
- Michael Sam in the 6th. Jags dare to take him. Nothing wrong with the pick, but the media attention may overshadow all the rest of the picks. Jags have the coach in place who won't tolerate locker room problems where Sam is concerned, and they give him a shot to make the roster. IF he makes it, Alualu or Branch are the odd man out.
Overall draft notes:
- I think Cleveland will jump ahead of us, but not to land a QB. They grab Clowney and wait to draft Carr later. Perfect scenario for St. Louis. They gain an extra pick, move down and still get a stud OT.
-There may be many other trades, but I think one will be the Jets moving up to get a CB. Here they swap with the Titans to land Gilbert.
- WR's could actually be: Chiefs - Beckham JR, Saints - Cooks, Panthers - Lee (Changed it to this in Edit mode)
- Philly gets dynamic deep threat replacement for DeSean Jackson in round 2 with the selection of Colorado's Paul Richardson.
- Arizona takes Mettenberger over McCarron to develop behind Carson Palmer for a year or two.
- In Denver, the rich get richer as they take standout OG Xavier Su'a-Filo in the 1st and WR Donte Moncrief to replace Decker in the 2nd.
- The first RB is not drafted until Miami takes Tre Mason at #50! Not a good RB class this year at all, and RB's are losing their value in the NFL.
Quote:A WR at three is not what I call maximum value when he's only going to be involved in 8-10 snaps a game.
Also, considering this draft is being described as the deepest WR draft maybe ever...that sort of flies in the face of your value claim as well.
You have a decent point if only talking WR in general terms, but do the math and take the following into consideration....
Clowney is gone in this mock, and our pass rush has been fortified in Free Agency. That makes K- Mack very unlikely at #3 now, IMO.
That leaves QB. Which one would Caldwell take at #3? Bortles will be gone to Houston. Bridgewater? Not after that Pro Day, if he was ever even worth it in the first place. Manziel? No way, somebody else can take that risk. That means QB in a later round.
The other highest rated players are OT's. Not gonna happen after taking Joeckel last year. And they like Pasztor or Bradfield at RT.
Who does that leave as the next highest rated player? Sammy.
We HAVE to get a good, no make that a
great WR in here to start. Who knows when Blackmon will be back, if he even returns. Shorts is decent, but hurt. Sanders is strictly slot/part-time. The running game will be in flux with MJD out and Gerhart in as a grinder. Our big plays are going to come from the passing game. Henne is going to need a WR who can make something happen.
If not Watkins, then given all the other factors I listed, who would you take that would make more of an immediate impact on the 2014 Jaguars?
Quote:A WR at three is not what I call maximum value when he's only going to be involved in 8-10 snaps a game.
Also, considering this draft is being described as the deepest WR draft maybe ever...that sort of flies in the face of your value claim as well.
Your premise that he's only going to be involved in 8-10 snaps a game is faulty.
Yes, he might only have 8-10 touches a game, but that is not the extent of his involvment, if he is the receiver people think he is.
If he becomes a dominant, Pro Bowl caliber WR, it will change the way defenses play against the Jaguars whether he actually gets the ball or not. Coverages will roll to his side, which should open things up for Shorts and other receivers.
If he proves to be a consistent deep threat, his presence will take a safety out of the box, which should help Gerhart get yardage inside.
That said, your point is taken and understood.
Quote:Jags draft notes:
- Obviously, Caldwell has done A LOT to bolster the pass rush in Free Agency. I think that rules out Mack at #3, and sets up the drafting of a QB or WR in round 1. Bortles is gone here, Bridgewater is falling and Caldwell probably won't touch Manziel. That means we take Watkins and kill two birds with one stone. We get a replacement playmaker for Blackmon, who many never be back, and we get a maximum impact star player we badly need.
- In Round 2, I believe Caldwell will get antsy for a QB and slightly overdraft Jimmy Garoppolo so as not to risk losing the chance to get a talented QB to groom. This will be great situation for Garoppolo to come in, sit behind Henne for half the season or the whole year, and learn the NFL. Many are comparing Jimmy to Tony Romo due to their great vision, reaction, quick release, but less than ideal size and athleticism.
- In Round 3, we HAVE to take an interior O-lineman if we have not yet. Here Center Weston Richburg falls in our laps, and is a great fit for our ZBS. Ironically enough, CBSSports compares him to Brad Meester in their write up on him.
- TE Arthur Lynch is a big guy who can block and catch and will be a great addition to the TE Corps.
- With all the extra picks we have, I don't see how Caldwell will not trade away some picks to move up a round at some point. In this scenario, it happens in round 4 when he sees an opportunity to get QB Brett Smith, who impressed at his Pro Day. We give up a 5th, 6th, and 7th rounder. No problem.
- Jags are said to have an interest in UCF RB Storm Johnson, and he would be a good pick in the 5th. I think he would make team and could be a valuable fill-in if Gerhart gets hurt.
- Michael Sam in the 6th. Jags dare to take him. Nothing wrong with the pick, but the media attention may overshadow all the rest of the picks. Jags have the coach in place who won't tolerate locker room problems where Sam is concerned, and they give him a shot to make the roster. IF he makes it, Alualu or Branch are the odd man out.
Overall draft notes:
- I think Cleveland will jump ahead of us, but not to land a QB. They grab Clowney and wait to draft Carr later. Perfect scenario for St. Louis. They gain an extra pick, move down and still get a stud OT.
-There may be many other trades, but I think one will be the Jets moving up to get a CB. Here they swap with the Titans to land Gilbert.
- WR's could actually be: Chiefs - Beckham JR, Saints - Cooks, Panthers - Lee
- Philly gets dynamic deep threat replacement for DeSean Jackson in round 2 with the selection of Colorado's Paul Richardson.
- Arizona takes Mettenberger over McCarron to develop behind Carson Palmer for a year or two.
- In Denver, the rich get richer as they take standout OG Xavier Su'a-Filo in the 1st and WR Donte Moncrief to replace Decker in the 2nd.
- The first RB is not drafted until Miami takes Tre Mason at #50! Not a good RB class this year at all, and RB's are losing their value in the NFL.
I'm not sure how much sense it would make for them (Cleveland) to jump ahead of us for Clowney.
Pettine is now their head coach. He is a 3-4 guy. Clowney is not a 3-4 DE, and it's questionable if he's a 3-4 OLB.
They took a 3-4 OLB pass rusher just last year in Mingo.
Quote:
- HOU – QB B. Bortles
- CLE – DE J. Clowney (from STL)
- JAC – WR S. Watkins (Maximum value impact player and star that is desperately needed)
- STL – OT G. Robinson (from CLE)
- OAK – QB J. Manziel
- ATL – OT J. Matthews
- TAM – OLB A. Barr
- MIN – QB T. Bridgewater
- BUF – OLB K. Mack
- DET – CB D. Dennard
- NYJ – CB J. Gilbert (from TEN)
- NYG – DT A. Donald
- STL – WR M. Evans
- CHI – FS H. Clinton-Dix
- PIT – OT T. Lewan
- DAL – DT T. Jernigan
- BAL – DE K. Ealy
- TEN – TE E. Ebron (from NYJ)
- MIA – OT Z. Martin
- ARI – OLB R. Shazier
- GB – FS C. Pryor
- PHI – LB C. J. Mosley
- K.C. – WR M. Lee
- CIN – DE/OLB D. Ford
- S.D. – CB J. Verrett
- CLE – QB D. Carr
- N.O. – WR O. Beckham Jr.
- CAR – WR B. Cooks
- N.E. – NT L. Nix
- S.F. – DT R. Hageman
- DEN – OG X. Su’a-Filo
- SEA – CB K. Fuller
- HOU – DT S. Tuitt
- WAS – WR K. Benjamin
- CLE – CB B. Roby
- OAK – TE J. Amaro
- ATL – OLB K. Van Noy
- TAM – OT C. Kouandjio
- JAC – QB J. Garoppolo (Caldwell does not risk waiting any longer for developmental QB)
- MIN –S J. Ward
- BUF – WR J. Matthews
- TEN – DE T. Murphy
- NYG – TE A. Saf- Jenkins
- STL – OG D. Yankey
- DET – OT M. Moses
- PIT – WR A. Robinson
- DAL – OG G. Jackson
- BAL – OLB C. Bradford
- TEN – CB M. Roberson (from NYJ)
- MIA – RB T. Mason
- CHI – DT D. Easley
- ARI – QB Z. Mettenberger
- GB – TE T. Niklas
- PHI – WR R. Richardson
- CIN – OC M. Martin
- S.F. – WR D. Adams
- S.D. – DT K. Quarles
- N.O. – OLB T. Reilly
- IND – DE K. Martin
- CAR – OT A. Richardson
- S.F. – CB L. Joyner
- N.E. – DE S. Crichton
- DEN – WR D. Moncrief
- SEA – OT J. Mewhort
- HOU – RB C. Hyde
- WAS – CB J. Watkins
- OAK – FS T. Brooks
- ATL – DE M. Smith
- TAM – WR J. Landry
- JAC – OC W. Richburg (Starter from day one in ZBS after beating out Brewster)
Rnd 1 – WR Sammy Watkins, Clemson
Rnd 2 – QB Jimmy Garoppolo, N. Illinois
Rnd 3 – C Weston Richburg, Colorado St
Rnd 4 – OG Cyril Richardson, Baylor
Rnd 4 – TE Arthur Lynch, Georgia
Rnd 4* – QB Brett Smith, Wyoming (*trade up for a 5<sup>th
</sup>
, a 6<sup>th
</sup>, and 7th round picks)
Rnd 5 – RB Storm Johnson, UCF
Rnd 5 - FS Kenny Ladler, Vandy
Rnd 6 – DE Michael Sam, Missouri
Rnd 6 – WR Jeff Janis, Saginaw Valley St or RB De’Anthony Thomas, Oregon
QB – Henne, Garoppolo, Smith
RB – Gerhart, Todman, Robinson, Johnson, Ta’ufo’ou
WR – Watkins, *Blackmon, Shorts, Sanders, Brown, Doss
TE – Lewis, Lynch, Harbor, Reisner
OL – Joeckel, Beadles, Richburg, Richardson, Pasztor, Bradfield, Brewster, McClendon
DL – Marks, Miller, Hood, Bryant, Clemons, Babin, Sam, Branch **(Alualu out)
LB – Poz, Hayes, Allen, Watson, Reynolds, Lotulelei, Stupar
CB – Gratz, Ball, Blackmon, Harris, McCray
S – Cyprien, Evans, Guy, Prosinski
ST – Scobee, Anger, Tinker
*Not sure if Blackmon will be on opening day roster with the drafting of Watkins in round 1, or how he will be carried on roster if he is not released.
A lot of new faces in bold. LB, CB, S, ST remain almost the same.
give me mack in place of watkins and maybe skip brett smith and get a qb later or possibly udfa and i think this is a slam dunk.
**edit** actually, honestly, i think watkins is going to be a stud. he is a lot stronger than i originally thought and for a young qb, watkins would be much more important than mack.
Quote:I'm not sure how much sense it would make for them (Cleveland) to jump ahead of us for Clowney.
Pettine is now their head coach. He is a 3-4 guy. Clowney is not a 3-4 DE, and it's questionable if he's a 3-4 OLB.
They took a 3-4 OLB pass rusher just last year in Mingo.
You just ruined my whole mock. Do you know how long I worked on this? LOL.
No seriously, I see your point, but at 6'5 270 with room to add more bulk, I think Clowney might be just big enough to play as a 3-4 DE. Or they could put him on the other side of Mingo at OLB if he played at 255-260 pounds with his 4.5 speed.
It could easily be Oakland or Atlanta that trades up to #2 to get him though. St. Louis could get Matthews or Robinson at #5 or #6.
Quote:give me mack in place of watkins and maybe skip brett smith and get a qb later or possibly udfa and i think this is a slam dunk.
Ok....here ya go.
1. HOU - QB B. Bortles
2. ATL - DE J. Clowney
3. JAC - OLB K. Mack
4. CLE - OT G. Robinson
5. OAK - WR S. Watkins
6. STL - OT J. Matthews
7. TAM - OT T. Lewan
8. MIN - QB T. Bridgewater
9. BUF - OLB A. Barr
10. DET - CB D. Dennard
But I don't think Caldwell takes Mack at #3 now with all the pass-rush help we already snatched up in FA. Maybe if we trade down and pick up an extra 2nd round selection, then we can take Mack as a luxury in the 1st (pick 6-8)
Quote:You just ruined my whole mock. Do you know how long I worked on this? LOL.
No seriously, I see your point, but at 6'5 270 with room to add more bulk, I think Clowney might be just big enough to play as a 3-4 DE. Or they could put him on the other side of Mingo at OLB if he played at 255-260 pounds with his 4.5 speed.
It could easily be Oakland or Atlanta that trades up to #2 to get him though. St. Louis could get Matthews or Robinson at #5 or #6.
Sorry about that.
I know how hard they are to do, and even harder to get right the way so many things change so quickly.
I didn't scrutinize the entire thing. Just that line jumped out to me.
As far as Clowney adding weight, I think adding enough weight to make him a 3-4 DE would put him about 285-290, which would rob him of the quality that makes him special-his speed. Also as a 3-4 DE-especially in a 2 gap front, he would be directly on a lineman in many instances, as opposed to being on his outside shoulder or beyond. That would be a huge mistake and minimize his impact.
There is an argument to be made for having him as an OLB opposite Mingo. But I would be loathe to experiment with the #3 pick overall, especially if you are the Browns and trading up for him.
Quote:Ok....here ya go.
1. HOU - QB B. Bortles
2. ATL - DE J. Clowney
3. JAC - OLB K. Mack
4. CLE - OT G. Robinson
5. OAK - WR S. Watkins
6. STL - OT J. Matthews
7. TAM - OT T. Lewan
8. MIN - QB T. Bridgewater
9. BUF - OLB A. Barr
10. DET - CB D. Dennard
Where does Manziel fall to then?
Quote:Where does Manziel fall to then?
If that top 10 happened, he could fall all the way to #26 to Clevland possibly. And if Cleveland took Carr instead, some team might trade up to the bottom of the 1st to get him.
I don't have much issue with the OP. I'd do a few things differently - but that draft would certainly add some talent.
The Alualu thing doesn't make sense. Bradley keeps stating over and over how they want fresh legs and rotation along the line. Tyson is a good fit to rotate with Red BRyant. Are you intending Bryant to play 80% of the snaps? He's about to turn 30 and he's a really BIG guy. Gotta' have a rotation there.
Sam doesn't make sense on this line IMO and I think they'll go after a LEO guy early. Oh- and you forgot to at Ladler to your roster over Prosinski - and I doubt Ladler is there in the 5th.
Other than that - I don't hate it.
Quote:Sorry about that.
I know how hard they are to do, and even harder to get right the way so many things change so quickly.
I didn't scrutinize the entire thing. Just that line jumped out to me.
As far as Clowney adding weight, I think adding enough weight to make him a 3-4 DE would put him about 285-290, which would rob him of the quality that makes him special-his speed. Also as a 3-4 DE-especially in a 2 gap front, he would be directly on a lineman in many instances, as opposed to being on his outside shoulder or beyond. That would be a huge mistake and minimize his impact.
There is an argument to be made for having him as an OLB opposite Mingo. But I would be loathe to experiment with the #3 pick overall, especially if you are the Browns and trading up for him.
More good points. As I said, it could easily be Atlanta or Oakland, but I think somebody trades up ahead of us to get Clowney. Regardless, I think we take Watkins after Bortles and Clowney are gone.
Quote:I don't have much issue with the OP. I'd do a few things differently - but that draft would certainly add some talent.
The Alualu thing doesn't make sense. Bradley keeps stating over and over how they want fresh legs and rotation along the line. Tyson is a good fit to rotate with Red BRyant. Are you intending Bryant to play 80% of the snaps? He's about to turn 30 and he's a really BIG guy. Gotta' have a rotation there.
Sam doesn't make sense on this line IMO and I think they'll go after a LEO guy early. Oh- and you forgot to at Ladler to your roster over Prosinski - and I doubt Ladler is there in the 5th.
Other than that - I don't hate it.
I just feel like Alualu adds ZERO production to the defense. Why keep him around? I kinda thought they added 3 players (4 counting Babin coming back) so they could be rid of Alualu and still have fresh legs in the rotation.
On Sam, you may be right, but I'd be surprised if they add another LEO guy really early in the draft after all they did in FA.... unless they plan to cut Branch already.
I like the mock overall but I don't agree with the reasoning for Watkins over Mack.
Our two pure LEO guys are 34 & 32, and Caldwell and Bradley have both said the moves that were made in free agency were in part made to let them choose whoever they want in the draft and not feel like they have to take certain players and positions.
While I do agree that WR is more of an immediate need than LEO, I don't think Caldwell will base his decision on that at 3. I think he'll go BAP, which I think would be Watkins anyway -- but could very well be Mack.
Another issue, I can't see Caldwell trading up to draft a second QB with as many holes as we have. We have 11 picks and he just said he'd like between 12-14. I think it would be plausible to trade up for a QB but not if we've already drafted one early.
Quote:I just feel like Alualu adds ZERO production to the defense. Why keep him around? I kinda thought they added 3 players (4 counting Babin coming back) so they could be rid of Alualu and still have fresh legs in the rotation.
On Sam, you may be right, but I'd be surprised if they add another LEO guy really early in the draft after all they did in FA.... unless they plan to cut Branch already.
Alualu doesn't create much production but as a rotational player he doesn't create a huge liability either.
Quote:If that top 10 happened, he could fall all the way to #26 to Clevland possibly. And if Cleveland took Carr instead, some team might trade up to the bottom of the 1st to get him.
If he falls that far I hope the Jags are the team to trade up for him. If I'm taking a flier on any "big 3" QB its him. Biggest boom or bust prospect available and QB may be the only position I would recommend taking a gamble like that on.
Quote:If he falls that far I hope the Jags are the team to trade up for him. If I'm taking a flier on any "big 3" QB its him. Biggest boom or bust prospect available and QB may be the only position I would recommend taking a gamble like that on.
I may be wrong, but I think Caldwell will steer clear of the "boom or bust" prospects....especially at QB.
I did a mock just for fun last week where we traded down a few spots, drafted WR Mike Evans, then when Manziel fell to the bottom of the 1st, we traded up from the 2nd to get him to pair with Mike Evans. May sound crazy, but that is the only way I would want him....as a package deal with Evans.
Quote:Ok....here ya go.
1. HOU - QB B. Bortles
2. ATL - DE J. Clowney
3. JAC - OLB K. Mack
4. CLE - OT G. Robinson
5. OAK - WR S. Watkins
6. STL - OT J. Matthews
7. TAM - OT T. Lewan
8. MIN - QB T. Bridgewater
9. BUF - OLB A. Barr
10. DET - CB D. Dennard
But I don't think Caldwell takes Mack at #3 now with all the pass-rush help we already snatched up in FA. Maybe if we trade down and pick up an extra 2nd round selection, then we can take Mack as a luxury in the 1st (pick 6-8)
clemons and babin are band aids not fixes so they might help for a few years but they will need replacing at some point.
Added mack is an olb that can rush the passer and I don't think he would be an every down leo, but I think mack would be a great addition as you could do so much with him
taking our finished front 7 with depth as being
bryant/ alualu at 5tech
miller/ rookie at 1 tech
marks/ hood at 3 tech
leo clemons, babin, branch, davis
mlb poz reynolds
olb hayes watson mack allen
on a guaranteed passing down say 3rd and 6 you could put a front 7 lightening
of marks clemons mack watson with one hand down at the line
allen hayes, and poz standing up
all 7 can get to the passer and 5 of those 7 can drop effectively into coverage
you know at least 4 will be rushing but you don't know where from that's confusing and worrying and would make the qb get the ball out quicker
add in red bryant and a healthy roy miller to our run d and i think we could really have something