Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:listening to bridgewater talk about why he accepted lousville over miami made sense.

 

He wanted stability at the school and Louisville just signed the ehad coach and he thought the coach would be there for his years at the school. He was not so sure about Miami.

He aslo wanted to get away from home because he the thought the distraction of his mothers breast cancer would pull him away from football.

 

And this whole thing about not wanting to compete against other QB's? SO what why not go to a college that says your our guy instead of going to one that says your one of our 4 guys this year and then 8 next year and so on. I personally would rather my son go to a college like UCF, Baylor, Pitt, Rutgers and get the chance to get on the field sooner than have them go to Alabama, USC, Michigan were they recruit 4 top 20 guys at his position per year. Yes competition is great but playing is greater.

 

Exactly. 

 

There are plenty of legitimate reasons a player chooses one school over another.

 

Going to a place where his chances of playing are maximized also speaks to competitiveness.

 

Joe Flacco started out at Pitt and ended up at Delaware.

 

Was he afraid of competition or otherwise lacking in competitiveness?

 

Marcus Stroud backed out of a commitment to the University of Florida to go to a weaker program at the time in Georgia.  Did he lack a competitive streak?

 

I can understand not being completely sold on Bridgewater.  I don't buy a lack of competitiveness as a legitimate reason.

Quote:If you accept his theory that Bridgewater's school choice is indicative of his lack of competitiveness, you'd have to ignore the fact when he played HS football, he had to beat out his competition for the QB spot.  He had to compete against opposing high school teams.  When he went to Louisville, he had to compete against other QBs to win the spot.  You can argue Louisville didn't play strong opponents on a regular basis, but when he went up against Florida and Miami, did he take himself out of those games?  No, he carved them up.

 

Taking his argument at face value, you'd have to conclude that Brett Favre, Steve McNair, Ben Roethlisberger, Rich Gannon, Joe Flacco, Colin Kaepernick, Kurt Warner, Roger Staubach, Ken Anderson, Terry Bradshaw, Phil Simms and many other QBs lacked competitive fire because they didn't play at an SEC school.

 

It's JungleCat.  He's the worst qualifies of several other posters combined.  

 

People act like the SEC is some special conference, but in reality it's not.  The difference between the ACC and SEC is smaller than the difference between the SEC and NFL.

Quote:It's JungleCat.  He's the worst qualifies of several other posters combined.  

 

People act like the SEC is some special conference, but in reality it's not.  The difference between the ACC and SEC is smaller than the difference between the SEC and NFL.

I'm pretty sure FSU beat Auburn, Oklahoma crushed Alabama, Texas AM barely beat Duke... Duke!.... SEC is the best conference ever!

Quote:I like the idea of trading back a little more than before.  Though it would be difficult to trade back when a talent like Clowney is on the board, I also like the idea of having more picks, especially the two second round picks and an extra 4th in a really deep draft.  My first choice would be to stay at three, but a scenario like one you just floated would be nice,

 

A few questions though...

 

1. Why only one QB?  Granted, I understand the need for many immediate impact players on this roster, but given how bad the QB situation is here. if we don't go QB in the first, why not hedge our bets with two QBs in the middle rounds, especially with the extra picks gained from a trade down?

 

2.  I like the way you are thinking with the extra corner early on, but why Roby, especially if you think his tape is bad?  I think you can get good value with CB in the second round without getting a guy you think is bad.

 

3.  Why do you think Moncrief lasts to round 4?  I don't see him getting past the 2nd round, TBH,

all excellent questions

 

1) personally if i had a choice at 3 i'd take teddy but i don't see him getting past 2 i think houston will take their pick of the qbs and pick him

 

you then have carr who i don't think will make it past 20 though i would have a tough think about him in the second ( i think arizona will snatch him up to sit behind carson palmer like green bay with aaron rodgers)

 

After that point i watch the qbs and it sadly boils down to the fact that i don't think they are good value (those that i have watched garropollo murray mettenberger aj... logan thomas i know nothing about ) for what we would need to get them

mett and garropollo i would take in the 3rd i think they will go early second

aj i wouldn't take above the late 3rd or 4th, i think he will go in the mid second or 3rd 

 

it boils down to, from what I have seen, the qb i have the most faith in to be a solid starter is fales.

He has the mental game, he has the pocket presence and he can make any throw you want with excellent accuracy within 20 yards. His main problem is an inability to drive it down the field and lacking arm strength, however i think that could be improved with better footwork and proper conditioning. Nonetheless he hits regularly within the strike zone and has experience in a prostyle offense. At the mid 4th he is a snip and i feel he could come into our offense within 6 weeks of the regular season and improve on henne.

 

I'm not saying he is a franchise guy but the offense we play is lots of short to intermediate passes and quick reads which is fales strengths i feel we are a good home for him and if he doesn't work out... we've lost a mid 4th

 

I understand qb is the major need but I would rather miss once on a mid rounder in the meantime and upgrade needs to give your eventual franchise guy a good set up than get another high rounder who we feel obligated to give chances too which then costs your franchise three years and a (as far as I can tell) good gm his job

 

2) sorry if i conveyed it that way but i like roby alot....people have dismissed him after he got destroyed by abbederis, a mid level wide out and said he stunk this year. That's not true his tape this year wasn't as good as last year but it sure wasn't bad., i like his physical style and i think he has everything needed to be a shutdown cornor in the nfl. I understand others don't agree but i really do. Hence why i take him in the second. That being said with this draft i see philli and detroit as two sure fire homes for cornors in the first round, that's about it really. I just see roby as being a realistic top level talent that could fall to our pick in the second.

 

3)moncrief was a little bit of wishful thinking on my part. I wanted to take him in the 3rd but I couldn't justify taking a receiver that high or passing on a centre in the 3rd. that being said i think he will slide into the 3rd at least

i think alot of teams will go for wideouts in the first between 16 and 32 . It's such a deep class i think there will be a big cluster of receivers taken like beckham benjamin etc. I think there are enough of them that moncrief will get left out of that first surge. I then think that because of the wideout group a few of the first round dt's de's and cb's will slide out of the first and so will take up alot of the early bidding a the top of the second along with the need for qbs. Then you come back to that 16-32 range where many of those guys have just taken a wideout so can't justify taking a second.

Which means guys like moncrief who are good but just out of that top group could feasibly slide to the 3rd-4th.

Quote:all excellent questions

 

1) personally if i had a choice at 3 i'd take teddy but i don't see him getting past 2 i think houston will take their pick of the qbs and pick him

 

you then have carr who i don't think will make it past 20 though i would have a tough think about him in the second ( i think arizona will snatch him up to sit behind carson palmer like green bay with aaron rodgers)

 

After that point i watch the qbs and it sadly boils down to the fact that i don't think they are good value (those that i have watched garropollo murray mettenberger aj... logan thomas i know nothing about ) for what we would need to get them

mett and garropollo i would take in the 3rd i think they will go early second

aj i wouldn't take above the late 3rd or 4th, i think he will go in the mid second or 3rd 

 

it boils down to, from what I have seen, the qb i have the most faith in to be a solid starter is fales.

He has the mental game, he has the pocket presence and he can make any throw you want with excellent accuracy within 20 yards. His main problem is an inability to drive it down the field and lacking arm strength, however i think that could be improved with better footwork and proper conditioning. Nonetheless he hits regularly within the strike zone and has experience in a prostyle offense. At the mid 4th he is a snip and i feel he could come into our offense within 6 weeks of the regular season and improve on henne.

 

I'm not saying he is a franchise guy but the offense we play is lots of short to intermediate passes and quick reads which is fales strengths i feel we are a good home for him and if he doesn't work out... we've lost a mid 4th

 

I understand qb is the major need but I would rather miss once on a mid rounder in the meantime and upgrade needs to give your eventual franchise guy a good set up than get another high rounder who we feel obligated to give chances too which then costs your franchise three years and a (as far as I can tell) good gm his job

 

 

3)moncrief was a little bit of wishful thinking on my part. I wanted to take him in the 3rd but I couldn't justify taking a receiver that high or passing on a centre in the 3rd. that being said i think he will slide into the 3rd at least

i think alot of teams will go for wideouts in the first between 16 and 32 . It's such a deep class i think there will be a big cluster of receivers taken like beckham benjamin etc. I think there are enough of them that moncrief will get left out of that first surge. I then think that because of the wideout group a few of the first round dt's de's and cb's will slide out of the first and so will take up alot of the early bidding a the top of the second along with the need for qbs. Then you come back to that 16-32 range where many of those guys have just taken a wideout so can't justify taking a second.

Which means guys like moncrief who are good but just out of that top group could feasibly slide to the 3rd-4th.

 

I think Carr COULD fall to the second round-at least lower than Az's pick in the first round, but I don't think he'll make it to 39th overall in the second.

 

I am not inclined to believe Arizona would take Carr in the first.

 

Even with Carson Palmer and in a tough division, they still finished 10-6 and missed the playoffs by a tiebreaker.  I think they will go more immediate needs in this draft.  Specifically, this is a pretty deep T draft, and Arizona has desperate need at that position, especially given the pass rushers in that division.  I would have to think if Taylor Lewan is somehow on the board when they pick, they'll be all over him before they get a QB to sit behind Palmer.

 

As far as your WR analysis, I can see teams in the bottom of the first round (SF, Seattle, New England, Cleveland, KC,) possibly going WR in the first.  But there is also an axiom that the deeper a draft class is, the lower WRs tend to be drafted.  Pundits have indicated this is a very deep draft class, so we'll see how true this axiom is.  If somehow we wound up with Moncrief in the 3rd round, I think I'd be pretty happy.

 

I think Az...maybe Cleveland at Indy's pick (26, IIRC) represents the last chances Carr will be taken in the first round, barring a trade up by a team at the top half of the 2nd round who missed out on a QB in the first.

Ignore the troll and eventually he will go away.

Quote:I think Carr COULD fall to the second round-at least lower than Az's pick in the first round, but I don't think he'll make it to 39th overall in the second.

 

I am not inclined to believe Arizona would take Carr in the first.

 

Even with Carson Palmer and in a tough division, they still finished 10-6 and missed the playoffs by a tiebreaker.  I think they will go more immediate needs in this draft.  Specifically, this is a pretty deep T draft, and Arizona has desperate need at that position, especially given the pass rushers in that division.  I would have to think if Taylor Lewan is somehow on the board when they pick, they'll be all over him before they get a QB to sit behind Palmer.

 

As far as your WR analysis, I can see teams in the bottom of the first round (SF, Seattle, New England, Cleveland, KC,) possibly going WR in the first.  But there is also an axiom that the deeper a draft class is, the lower WRs tend to be drafted.  Pundits have indicated this is a very deep draft class, so we'll see how true this axiom is.  If somehow we wound up with Moncrief in the 3rd round, I think I'd be pretty happy.

 

I think Az...maybe Cleveland at Indy's pick (26, IIRC) represents the last chances Carr will be taken in the first round, barring a trade up by a team at the top half of the 2nd round who missed out on a QB in the first.

all logical points and i can't argue with any of it

The thing with arizona is they need only a few things

a pass rusher to replace abrahams is a good shout perhaps kyle van noy or dee ford but is that a bit of a reach at 20?

a tackle is a good call but i think alot of them will go early on so they may be left with the dregs at 20

wide receiver to replace larry fitzgerald or a cornor to go with peterson could be a good idea but with fitz being 30 and still excelling I wouldn't be too worried and with the depth at both positions i think they could address both in the later rounds

 

palmer on the other hand only has one year left on his deal is 34 and is an area that could definitely be improved. Will they have the opportunity to draft a player of carr's quality especially in terms of his arm and they even have the time to sit him and deal with his issues before starting him. 

 

in my head it's too good an opportunity to pass up

Quote:I think Carr COULD fall to the second round-at least lower than Az's pick in the first round, but I don't think he'll make it to 39th overall in the second.

 

I am not inclined to believe Arizona would take Carr in the first.

 

Even with Carson Palmer and in a tough division, they still finished 10-6 and missed the playoffs by a tiebreaker.  I think they will go more immediate needs in this draft.  Specifically, this is a pretty deep T draft, and Arizona has desperate need at that position, especially given the pass rushers in that division.  I would have to think if Taylor Lewan is somehow on the board when they pick, they'll be all over him before they get a QB to sit behind Palmer.

 

As far as your WR analysis, I can see teams in the bottom of the first round (SF, Seattle, New England, Cleveland, KC,) possibly going WR in the first.  But there is also an axiom that the deeper a draft class is, the lower WRs tend to be drafted.  Pundits have indicated this is a very deep draft class, so we'll see how true this axiom is.  If somehow we wound up with Moncrief in the 3rd round, I think I'd be pretty happy.

 

I think Az...maybe Cleveland at Indy's pick (26, IIRC) represents the last chances Carr will be taken in the first round, barring a trade up by a team at the top half of the 2nd round who missed out on a QB in the first.

 

 

I think Carr is a first rounder this year.  Some team is going to overdraft him and take him either mid first or late first round after a possible trade up scenario.  I think Carr has potential and depending on the situation he goes too could be a good pickup for someone.  He's not a top 3 QB but I could see him taken around where a guy like Flacco was.  

 

As for Moncrief I don't see him making it past round two.  If we want him we'll need to take him at 39 and that's not where I'd be comfortable taking him.

Quote:I think Carr is a first rounder this year.  Some team is going to overdraft him and take him either mid first or late first round after a possible trade up scenario.  I think Carr has potential and depending on the situation he goes too could be a good pickup for someone.  He's not a top 3 QB but I could see him taken around where a guy like Flacco was.  

 

As for Moncrief I don't see him making it past round two.  If we want him we'll need to take him at 39 and that's not where I'd be comfortable taking him.

 

If we don't take QB at 3, would you trade up for Carr?

 

Would surrendering a mid round pick or two to get into the 20s to take Carr represent "overpaying," for the Jaguars?

 

What's the latest you would wait to draft a QB this year?

Quote:If we don't take QB at 3, would you trade up for Carr?

 

Would surrendering a mid round pick or two to get into the 20s to take Carr represent "overpaying," for the Jaguars?

 

What's the latest you would wait to draft a QB this year?

 

 

I would draft Carr in the late first if we could trade a mid round pick and make that happen but I don't know if that would be enough to trade back into the first.  If we draft Carr I think he benefits from sitting for a period of time which means we could see Henne for all or part of this coming season.

 

Then half of me thinks "That mid round pick could be valuable given the depth of the draft" but either way I will trust Caldwell and his scouting of the QBs.  If he thinks Carr is a potential Super Bowl level QB by all means trade back into the first and take him.  I'm not convinced Carr even lasts into the 20s though. 

 

Personally the only QBs that I would draft 2nd round or higher (as guys with potential to be big impact QBs) are Teddy, Bortles, Carr, and Johnny Football.  The only one I would be OK with at 3 is Teddy.  Guys like Jimmy G, Murray, Fales, strike me as at best QB purgatory level QBs.  They may get you Andy Dalton level status but they're never going to take you any further than that, if they get that far.  They are going to keep you out of reach of a real impact guy at QB for years and suck you into that 'QB purgatory' that is so devastating for franchises.

 

I would draft a QB with our 2nd rounder depending on availability...after that point I don't see anyone that is worth anything higher than a 5th rounder.  Logan Thomas is an interesting draft and develop guy (or try him at a different position, hell of an athlete) that I would take late.  I think he goes higher as well on measurables alone.  Teams will take a flyer on him before them because of his athletic potential.  

 

This draft is going to be amazing to watch...already sitting at 10 picks and I hope we can add a few more along the way.  Ideally as I mentioned in a different thread we trade out of 3 (outside the top 10 completely if at all possible) and add several more selections either this year or even more ideally...next year.  

Quote:i'd like us to take one of teddy mack or clowney at 3 or 6

either or i think provides they provide us with good value at 3 or excellent at 6.

 

me i think teddy will be gone and clowney doesn't really want to be in jacksonville so i want us to take mack at 6 and get a 2nd and 4th from atlanta for them to take clowney

try mack at the leo but i think he will struggle against the run but he has show he can play it in college

i would prefer to see him next to poz and geno and let him go to work.

 

with the first of the second rounders go trenches i think the centre class is weaker up to so i would like later and go

guard xavier su'a filo first round talent early in the second... i like yankey but i think filo's added mobility would be a benefit, top class guard prospect that could secure the left guard for the forseeable future

 

and with the second i take bradley roby, i understand why people aren't high on this kid especially given his poor play this year, but he has the speed and by his bench yesterday the strength to become a number one cornor. Getting him in the second is likely and is a steal. I take him only if we get a second pick in the second as i feel roby gratz and mccray have the ability to be a leading cornor tandem for a good long time

 

3rd i take weston richburg- i think the de class is better in free agency than the centre class mack aside (who i think will want too much money) and would rather we went after a de in fa and a centre in the draft. If we don't adress the qb at 3 we will likely have henne under centre next year which means the centre has time to bed in

 

4th(3 picks with the trade)

i take daniel mcullers- a big run stuffing dt is exactly what we need to take the pressure of marks by rotating in and eventually replace miller full time. Mcullers is huge strong with room to grow. I would prefer to take him in the 3rd to make sure we get him but i think the early 3rd round is too early and would rather spend it on a centre

donte moncrief- big body wide out great combine performance i think he is the right sort of guy to take at wideout and at the right place in the draft

i then take david fales with the ravens pick in the 4th

 

5th- i take james white rb- small well developed back with great cuts that i was high on all through- not ideal size but a great all rounder that knows how to hit the hole. At a 5th I'm very happy with him

5th- george uko dt- a developmental prospect that could line up anywhere on the d line either to back up marks or to sit behind and eventually provide competition to alualu

 

6th- kevin pierre louis- fastest lb at the combine and reminds me of russel allen think he is a great bet as a development prospect and would be very happy going into the season with a core of poz mack hayes and back ups allen reynold pierre louis

 

7th- kadeem edwards guard- not a mover but a big strong guard with pretty perfect physical attributes long arms good size once again a developmental prospect for a weak o line

Here is my latest idea, and it also involves trading back.

 

Minnesota is desperate for a QB. I think they take no chances and will want to jump over Cleveland and Oakland to grab a QB of their choice after Bortles goes #1 to Houston.  They could even trade up with St. Louis to get ahead of the Jags, but for the sake of the trade scenario we will say they give us their 2nd round pick to move up from #8 to #3.  Atlanta also trades up to get Clowney.

 

1. HOU - QB B. Bortles

2. ATL - DE J. Clowney (from STL)

3. MIN -  QB T. Bridgewater (from JAC)

4. CLE - QB J. Manziel

5. OAK - OT G. Robinson

6. STL - OT J. Matthews (from ATL)

7. TAM - OLB K. Mack

8. JAC - WR S. Watkins (from MIN)

9. BUF - OT T. Lewan

10. DET - CB D. Dennard

 

39. JAC - QB D. Carr (pair him with Watkins for some big plays, no pressure to start day 1)

40. JAC - OC T. Swanson

 

Free Agency - DE Michael Bennett

 

The rest of the draft would hopefully land a future starting RB and some quality depth at CB, LB and DL.

Quote:A non-story? The Combine simply confirms what we already know about Bridgewater. His agent is NOT going to stand in the huddle holding his hand on Sunday, is he?


Bridgewater lacks the essential competitive nature. The Combine proves it. That's a pretty big story.


This is turning into Geno Smith 2.0 a lot quicker than I thought it would.


Hey, according to sources, the Jets think Michael Vick is in and Geno is going bye-bye. That's not possible if Bridgewater is taken high in the first round.


Why throw away a pick on Bridgewater?

lol...out with the old straw man. ...in with the new

Quote:Here is my latest idea, and it also involves trading back.


Minnesota is desperate for a QB. I think they take no chances and will want to jump over Cleveland and Oakland to grab a QB of their choice after Bortles goes #1 to Houston. They could even trade up with St. Louis to get ahead of the Jags, but for the sake of the trade scenario we will say they give us their 2nd round pick to move up from #8 to #3. Atlanta also trades up to get Clowney.


1. HOU - QB B. Bortles

2. ATL - DE J. Clowney (from STL)

3. MIN - QB T. Bridgewater (from JAC)

4. CLE - QB J. Manziel

5. OAK - OT G. Robinson

6. STL - OT J. Matthews (from ATL)

7. TAM - OLB K. Mack

8. JAC - WR S. Watkins (from MIN)

9. BUF - OT T. Lewan

10. DET - CB D. Dennard


39. JAC - QB D. Carr (pair him with Watkins for some big plays, no pressure to start day 1)

40. JAC - OC T. Swanson


Free Agency - DE Michael Bennett


The rest of the draft would hopefully land a future starting RB and some quality depth at CB, LB and DL.

My only problem with this scenario is that both Oakland and Tampa Bay pick ahead of us in the 2nd. Both will be in the market for a QB. If we are targeting Carr we'll need to trade ahead of both teams abs even possibly back into the 1st.

Quote:My only problem with this scenario is that both Oakland and Tampa Bay pick ahead of us in the 2nd. Both will be in the market for a QB. If we are targeting Carr we'll need to trade ahead of both teams abs even possibly back into the 1st.

My thinking was that Oakland gives Pyror one more year if they don't land one of the top 3 QB's in round 1.  Tampa has a pretty good one in Glennon, so I'm hoping they like a defensive player better than Carr with their round 2 pick.