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http://fansided.com/2014/01/26/nfl-draft...20on%20FS#

I want NOTHING to do with Carr. You're picking another Gabbert if you pick Carr. Terrible, terrible.

how are they the same tommy?

Quote:how are they the same tommy?

Because the only time he has seen him was against USC I'm sure. Sad but expected from too many simpletons. 

I will say that Carr is the better prospect than Gabbert but i can see reasons for Tommy to make the comparison. My issue with Carr is how he transforms from top flight college QB to scrap heap the moment defenses start dialing up the pressure.

 

His footwork , composure , decision making and accuracy take huge dips when he feels pressure nearby and not direct in his face pressure but moderate pressure that QBs like Bridgewater and Manziel dont seem bothered by at all.

 

He does have 10x the potential of Gabbert arm talent wise and he is much tougher but he still crumbles in tight pockets whereas at this level you want to see a player who does better under pressure.

Quote:I will say that Carr is the better prospect than Gabbert but i can see reasons for Tommy to make the comparison. My issue with Carr is how he transforms from top flight college QB to scrap heap the moment defenses start dialing up the pressure.

 

His footwork , composure , decision making and accuracy take huge dips when he feels pressure nearby and not direct in his face pressure but moderate pressure that QBs like Bridgewater and Manziel dont seem bothered by at all.

 

He does have 10x the potential of Gabbert arm talent wise and he is much tougher but he still crumbles in tight pockets whereas at this level you want to see a player who does better under pressure.

I have watched every cut up of his on draftbreakdown, many of them multiple times. I can promise you he doesn't crumble. It's not even close to a Blaine Gabbert (or even Eli Manning) situation. 

Quote:I will say that Carr is the better prospect than Gabbert but i can see reasons for Tommy to make the comparison. My issue with Carr is how he transforms from top flight college QB to scrap heap the moment defenses start dialing up the pressure.

 

His footwork , composure , decision making and accuracy take huge dips when he feels pressure nearby and not direct in his face pressure but moderate pressure that QBs like Bridgewater and Manziel dont seem bothered by at all.

 

He does have 10x the potential of Gabbert arm talent wise and he is much tougher but he still crumbles in tight pockets whereas at this level you want to see a player who does better under pressure.

Top flight QB? If they were the case he wouldn't have looked below average in the bowl game.

Quote:I have watched every cut up of his on draftbreakdown, many of them multiple times. I can promise you he doesn't crumble. It's not even close to a Blaine Gabbert (or even Eli Manning) situation. 

 

 

So have i actually and i see alot of throwing horribly of his back foot under pressure (Eli Manning) and turning directly into a sack by not properly feeling the pressure (Gabbert). 

 

No he doesnt do the fetal position like Gabbert but he will chuck and duck it Eli style and he does have serious awarness issues when pressure is around him. I even said he was tougher than Gabbert he simply has some of that phantom pressure issue that Gabbert does of getting jittery when he perceives pressure even when he still has time and should be composed.

Quote:Because the only time he has seen him was against USC I'm sure. Sad but expected from too many simpletons. 

What, are you kidding? I've watched 5 games this season. Derek Carr did not show what it takes to be an NFL QB. Dude is scared of nothing. He has a strong arm, average footwork, and reacts to phantom pressure. I also don't like the way he moves around in the pocket. Almost Pop-Warner-esque.

 

You can find this information without even watching games, anyway. Have you heard of the internet?

Quote:What, are you kidding? I've watched 5 games this season. Derek Carr did not show what it takes to be an NFL QB. Dude is scared of nothing. He has a strong arm, average footwork, and reacts to phantom pressure. I also don't like the way he moves around in the pocket. Almost Pop-Warner-esque.

 

You can find this information without even watching games, anyway. Have you heard of the internet?

Please show me said examples of him feeling phantom pressure, because I haven't seen it. I saw it in that Jimmy G play I posted last night, but when Carr reacts to pressure it is warranted from everything I have seen. 

I wonder why there seems to be such a wide disparity about this guy.  Some like him, others hate him, no one seems to be in the middle.  Do people just want to avoid him in the 1st? Would anyone be happy if we picked him in the 2nd after getting, say, Clowney in the 1st?

 

Disclaimer:  I only saw him play once, against USC, and admittedly he was not very good that day.  That being said, I think Fresno,. as a team, was largely over matched, talent wise, by USC.  

Quote:I wonder why there seems to be such a wide disparity about this guy. Some like him, others hate him, no one seems to be in the middle. Do people just want to avoid him in the 1st? Would anyone be happy if we picked him in the 2nd after getting, say, Clowney in the 1st?


Disclaimer: I only saw him play once, against USC, and admittedly he was not very good that day. That being said, I think Fresno,. as a team, was largely over matched, talent wise, by USC.

You can color me in the middle, which is precisely why I don't want to draft him at 3.


Does he have the measurables? sure, does he seemingly have good intangibles a good head on his shoulder, and football savvy sure.


Are there warranted concerns about the type of offense he excelled in and his pocket presence under pressure, I think so. I wonder why even when making routine throws down the field he has a tendency to fade away on his throws... Meaning he transfers a lot of his weight to his back foot. I see that in a lot of his highlights and I saw it during senior bowl practices and in the game as well. I think some of his bad habits are going to be tough to beat out of him in an nfl system under pressure. That is my opinion.



I would not be upset with a non 1 pick on him necessarily.


But let me ask this, the more it looks like Bridgwater may be available at 3, do to the texans desire to go elsewhere. is their anyone on here that can honestly say they prefer this kid over Bridgwater?

Quote:But let me ask this, the more it looks like Bridgwater may be available at 3, do to the texans desire to go elsewhere. is their anyone on here that can honestly say they prefer this kid over Bridgwater?

No, nobody is arguing for him over Teddy. The people who are comparing him to Gabbert or saying they wouldn't take him until day 3 deserve to be laughed at though. He's a virtual 1st round lock, as he always has been. 

Quote:No, nobody is arguing for him over Teddy. The people who are comparing him to Gabbert or saying they wouldn't take him until day 3 deserve to be laughed at though. He's a virtual 1st round lock, as he always has been. 

 

 

I would take him with our second rounder and thats it. Only way we (Jags) should take him in the first is with a trade down to gather more picks. I like his arm but question his mental ability and his ability under pressure. He is a "first round" Qb in that he has the arm and size but beyond that and a good deep ball there isnt alot that jumps out and alot of college Qbs have a good arm plus size.

 

Gabbert had the same actually. SIze plus Arm  = First round talent but it doesnt = success at the next level. I will say again he is 10x the talent that Gabbert was and could be a solid NFL QB but he has a huge amount of learning and polish needed and may never reach his potential due to that.

Personally, I would be more interested in who the true #2 QB is in this draft is and how far are they from Teddy. Is it Bortles or could it be Carr?

 

Also, I think Carr's brother is causing Derek to be judged unfairly. What is the real deal on this kid? Can he be a Franchise QB? Is he better than Bortles?

I think Bortles is the 2nd best QB in this draft.  If we could trade down and get him, that would be fantastic. Not sure I'd take him at 3 unless we absolutely had to.  

Quote:Personally, I would be more interested in who the true #2 QB is in this draft is and how far are they from Teddy. Is it Bortles or could it be Carr?

 

Also, I think Carr's brother is causing Derek to be judged unfairly. What is the real deal on this kid? Can he be a Franchise QB? Is he better than Bortles?

 

I believe him to be above Bortles in terms of arm talent but i think Bortles shows more of the intangibles and mental toughness/ability you want in a QB.

 

On the Carr vs Carr thing: I actually didnt even know they were brothers when i first heard about him and began watching the draft breakdown cutups. It didnt really darken my outlook on him. Personally i just got a chuckle out of it and moved on evaluating the player on the field and not a family tree.

Someone posted in another thread a breakdown of how the various perceived top tier guys did and Carr's stats against pressure were alarmingly bad. In addition he was throwing tons of checkdowns and screens and didn't do well going down the field at all.

 

Now does that mean he can never be a good QB? I can't say anyone is ever worth writing off if they have the physical tools to actually make the throws, but the results for Carr against pressure and actually throwing NFL passes were shockingly bad. He really does look to be another Gabbert, but without the ideal size.

 

 

edit: Ahh, here's that thread. http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/top...wgraphics/

Quote:Someone posted in another thread a breakdown of how the various perceived top tier guys did and Carr's stats against pressure were alarmingly bad. In addition he was throwing tons of checkdowns and screens and didn't do well going down the field at all.

 

Now does that mean he can never be a good QB? I can't say anyone is ever worth writing off if they have the physical tools to actually make the throws, but the results for Carr against pressure and actually throwing NFL passes were shockingly bad. He really does look to be another Gabbert, but without the ideal size.

 

 

edit: Ahh, here's that thread. http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/top...wgraphics/

It was the @NU_Gap charting from the RW article a few weeks ago. We talked about it then w/ a forum topic too. It's a really good breakdown, but unfortunately it leaves a ton of context out...particularly for Carr. Like how the screen passes were essentially Fresno's run game, so naturally that's going to skew the %s to all quadrants. Also, Carr had by a good margin the lowest snap to sack time among the 4 (I saw the exact times in a tweet but forget where, sorry) because he was being protected by a line that is literally worse than some high school lines out there. 

 

And no I'm not knocking Greg at all he's one of my favorite follows and does great charting work, but even he admits it's, again, just a piece of the evaluation puzzle and by itself doesn't mean a whole lot.

Quote:It was the @NU_Gap charting from the RW article a few weeks ago. We talked about it then w/ a forum topic too. It's a really good breakdown, but unfortunately it leaves a ton of context out...particularly for Carr. Like how the screen passes were essentially Fresno's run game, so naturally that's going to skew the %s to all quadrants. Also, Carr had by a good margin the lowest snap to sack time among the 4 (I saw the exact times in a tweet but forget where, sorry) because he was being protected by a line that is literally worse than some high school lines out there. 

 

And no I'm not knocking Greg at all he's one of my favorite follows and does great charting work, but even he admits it's, again, just a piece of the evaluation puzzle and by itself doesn't mean a whole lot.

 

This seems a lot like rationalization.

 

We already know that truly elite QBs don't need a great line, and it doesn't explain why his passes down the field are so much worse than the other guys.