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Quote:I was able to buy liquor from The Village Saloon drive-through in Orange Park when I was 16. I got stinking drunk more than once, the worst time I woke the morning after in my girlfriend's front yard, drenched in dew. I didn't wake up on my own, her father woke me up with a kick to my rear end when he came upon me while retrieving the morning paper. As so ended the romance of a lifetime.

 

That girl told me later that I had woken her up by knocking on her window around 4 am, and she told me to go away. I have no recollection of how I got there, only that I was at a party a mile away, where I had left my car. I could have very easily ended up like the young man in the story that prompted this thread. Her dad was military, though, and likely had training that may have prevented him from shooting me, but who knows?

I hope you watch your kids closer cause of that experience.

Quote:I did. Several times....not once did I manage to break into another's home. Not even close. 

 

Yeah, but did you ever get so drunk you didn't know where you were?

For the record, the houses were near identical, and the house was two doors down from his house.  His friends dropped him off at the wrong house.  He snuck in the window, thinking it was his house.  

 

Quote:In the old testament if a man came into your house at night then it was assumed his intention to murder if necessary, whether the primary motive was to steal or not.

 

The mom should be getting in trouble for allowing her 16 year old son out late at night to drink. Hes a minor, not only did she fail to raise him in the way he should go, but she practically kicked him down the wrong road by not imposing any standards. This woman should be in jail, not the man who defended his home against an invader at night. There is a reason there is a drinking age, and its not 'just because'. I feel bad for the kid and the guy who shot him, but the mother? I hope she gains some awareness, cause at the end of the day, her sons death is her fault.

 

First of all, he snuck out.  That's why he was trying to sneak back in.  He was grounded, and not allowed to go out.  Second, putting a parent in jail for letting their kid have alcohol is ridiculous.  

Quote:In the old testament if a man came into your house at night then it was assumed his intention to murder if necessary, whether the primary motive was to steal or not. It is the same in all cultures, and hasn't changed. You break into someones house at night, you might get shot, and the homeowner is not responsible or held liable cause it was your fault.

 

Nice shot (and good job on the warning-dodging edit). Unfortunately I cannot debate the point without violating message board rules. Please keep that in mind when posting in the future.


 

The mom should be getting in trouble for allowing her 16 year old son out late at night to drink. Hes a minor, not only did she fail to raise him in the way he should go, but she practically kicked him down the wrong road by not imposing any standards. This woman should be in jail, not the man who defended his home against an invader at night. There is a reason there is a drinking age, and its not 'just because'. I feel bad for the kid and the guy who shot him, but the mother? I hope she gains some awareness, cause at the end of the day, her sons death is her fault.

 

He was grounded and sneaked out. Without knowing the history, you are making some pretty wild assumptions. Sometimes kids are raised right but still make mistakes. I am certain the woman feels enough guilt to satisfy you.

Quote:Or like in post 3, they'll see you have a point here but disagree with it - and try to sweep the whole thread under the rug and ask why these threads continue to show up.... :whistling:

Congratulations! That made no sense. Try to be coherent, please.

Quote:You've added a whole bunch of factors. If I found someone in my kids room, I'd kill them too, that's not what I said.

 

If someone is in your house that you do not know...there is a very high potential they could go to your kids room.

Quote:For the record, the houses were near identical, and the house was two doors down from his house.  His friends dropped him off at the wrong house.  He snuck in the window, thinking it was his house.  

 

 

First of all, he snuck out.  That's why he was trying to sneak back in.  He was grounded, and not allowed to go out.  Second, putting a parent in jail for letting their kid have alcohol is ridiculous.  

 

Do I think its a sad situation, yes.  Do I think it was a wrong place, wrong time type of situation, sure....but regardless of wheter you are drunk or not, someone has a right to defend themself. 

 

When someone is in your house and you dont know who or why they are there.....its get them before they get you. 

Quote:If someone is in your house that you do not know...there is a very high potential they could go to your kids room.

 

Who even said in a house?

 

All I said was, shoot someone in the back who is not being aggressive, even if they are stealing your stuff (because a human life even a thieving scumbag's > stuff) makes you a cold-blooded coward no matter what the law of wherever you are in the world says in my humble opinion.

 

You want to just keep listing scenarios and ask my opinion if I think killing someone is justified, that's cool.

Here is my take.  For one, really hard to have a take without being there.  So many circumstances, mind frames, etc... that are much easier to debate then it is to be in that situation.  If it was 3:00 am and someone came through my window, I would assume it was an intruder.  Maybe I would tell him I have a gun, but if the guy is so drunk he goes into the wrong house, he may not completely understand or be able to comprehend what I'm saying.  I don't know what I would do if he turn around and came towards me.  Probably shoot the gun.  Or if I noticed he was drunk and saw his hands, maybe I wouldn't.  I don't know.  I think we should all stop acting like we know what we would do in a certain situation unless we have been in that situation, and that goes for both sides.

 

As far as handsomerob calling out the mom I think you are assuming way too many things. I snuck out of the house when I was 16 and went out partying.  My parents were pretty strict, I made good grades and was at a rebellious age.  I drank too much and stayed at the place I snuck out to (luckily) and was woken up to a VM on the person who threw the parties message machine (still can't remember how they got the number).  Anyways, needless to say, 16 year olds do stupid stuff even when properly raised.  This is just a sad story of wrong place, wrong time, kid making a bad decision, but paying dearly for it.  Most kids that do this get grounded, not shot so please, lets stop with the judgmental posts.  

Quote:Here is my take.  For one, really hard to have a take without being there.  So many circumstances, mind frames, etc... that are much easier to debate then it is to be in that situation.  If it was 3:00 am and someone came through my window, I would assume it was an intruder.  Maybe I would tell him I have a gun, but if the guy is so drunk he goes into the wrong house, he may not completely understand or be able to comprehend what I'm saying.  I don't know what I would do if he turn around and came towards me.  Probably shoot the gun.  Or if I noticed he was drunk and saw his hands, maybe I wouldn't.  I don't know.  I think we should all stop acting like we know what we would do in a certain situation unless we have been in that situation, and that goes for both sides.
 
As far as handsomerob calling out the mom I think you are assuming way too many things. I snuck out of the house when I was 16 and went out partying.  My parents were pretty strict, I made good grades and was at a rebellious age.  I drank too much and stayed at the place I snuck out to (luckily) and was woken up to a VM on the person who threw the parties message machine (still can't remember how they got the number).  Anyways, needless to say, 16 year olds do stupid stuff even when properly raised.  This is just a sad story of wrong place, wrong time, kid making a bad decision, but paying dearly for it.  Most kids that do this get grounded, not shot so please, lets stop with the judgmental posts.

Agree with this post.

"Stop with the judgmental posts." Good luck with that. I thought that's why these particular "news stories" are being posted.

Just saw the report on 20/20 (I had taped it and was not aware this story was one they were covering from last Friday.) You are correct - the parents are not to "blame". As you sad, sad story about being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Quote:Here is my take.  For one, really hard to have a take without being there.  So many circumstances, mind frames, etc... that are much easier to debate then it is to be in that situation.  If it was 3:00 am and someone came through my window, I would assume it was an intruder.  Maybe I would tell him I have a gun, but if the guy is so drunk he goes into the wrong house, he may not completely understand or be able to comprehend what I'm saying.  I don't know what I would do if he turn around and came towards me.  Probably shoot the gun.  Or if I noticed he was drunk and saw his hands, maybe I wouldn't.  I don't know.  I think we should all stop acting like we know what we would do in a certain situation unless we have been in that situation, and that goes for both sides.

 

As far as handsomerob calling out the mom I think you are assuming way too many things. I snuck out of the house when I was 16 and went out partying.  My parents were pretty strict, I made good grades and was at a rebellious age.  I drank too much and stayed at the place I snuck out to (luckily) and was woken up to a VM on the person who threw the parties message machine (still can't remember how they got the number).  Anyways, needless to say, 16 year olds do stupid stuff even when properly raised.  This is just a sad story of wrong place, wrong time, kid making a bad decision, but paying dearly for it.  Most kids that do this get grounded, not shot so please, lets stop with the judgmental posts.  

 

I agree with this 100% and nobody knows what they would do in the situation.  My only point is that the person who lived there had the right to shoot somebody who came into his house illegally.

Quote:I agree with this 100% and nobody knows what they would do in the situation.  My only point is that the person who lived there had the right to shoot somebody who came into his house illegally.

 

jtmoney put it very well. I would be surprised if there were anyone that would dispute his "take".
 
A - The homeowner was justified, no one is saying he wasn't justified (or have they? I ask because I didn't refresh read the thread). Given the lack of knowledge of the circumstances, and how fearfully threatened this man felt for himself, or the safety of his family can only lead to the approval to use deadly force in defense of himself, and family.
 
Protecting/Defending your family when confronted with a scenario like this man was would be a nightmare that we should all fear. Scares me to death ... and I fear reacting too quickly more than reacting too slowly. The older I get, the more I question my ability to decipher my surroundings appropriately if faced with a life, or death scenario.
 
B - No one knows how this teenage kid was raised (or punished), and that makes any opinion that his Mom is at fault ridiculous. My first experience with cigarettes was around age 8, first time I was drunk? ... going to say around 12ish, and Mary Jane was pretty much near that same timeframe. My Mom would have lit my rear end up if she ever suspected any of those infractions. Had I been drunk, then killed for entering a home that wasn't mine in the middle of the night? My Mom would be the last person to be at fault.
 
C - If you have a child ... you may never know all the things they have done that you were not aware of, then, and now. Your child could grow up, and make a similar horrible mistake that this teenage boy made. It could happen to the best of parents.
 
D - If I shot this kid (justifiably) only to find out afterwards that it was Diesel's (just using a friends name for effect) child coming home drunk, and confused about his whereabouts? ... I may not ever be able to forgive myself. Especially if I start second guessing my attempts to decipher the circumstances I was confronted with during the shooting.
 
Having always owned weapons while my sons were growing up, I would at times mentally prepare myself to remember to not shoot at a shadow without some serious efforts to identify the person ...I kind of figured It is far more likely to be someone I know inside my home rather than an intruder looking to kill my family.
 
E - The reason you don't hear about all the kids that came home drunk this past weekend being grounded, or not getting caught at all? Because they didn't get shot, or die. Thousands of kids sneak in every night ... They did it 60 years ago, they still do it today. None of this is new.
 
F - What percentage of people sneaking into a home in the middle of the night are actual boogie men versus someone not wanting to be busted sneaking in? (or whatever other scenario fits) ... I don't know for sure, but I hope to never be a victim of a justifiable shooting that kills someone that had no intention of harming myself, loved ones, or friends. It would mentally trash my own well being. I feel so bad for all of these people ... All of them.
 
The parents lives have changed forever, and so has the homeowners life. There are no winners here, just a bunch of us losers trying to point fingers of fault. I don't see how anyone wants to be right. There will be a shovel of dirt cast upon his casket to start with. I find it hard to say that he deserved it, even though I know it was justified.

Think you said it best at the end. It wasn't deserved, but it is possibly justified. We like to think there is a right and a wrong in this situation. It is easier to blame someone which brings closure. Unfortunately life is filled with so many complicated issues that don't have a right or wrong. Instead, you are left picking up the pieces trying to figure out a situation that may have no true answer.