What's up guys. I was just perusing the boards, and observing everyone's discussion of who they think a franchise QB will be. Some say Teddy, some Manziel, others Bortles, and some (Looking at you JungleCat
) say there aren't any in this draft. So, the question came to me, "what is my definition of a franchise quarterback?"
It's not an easy question to answer. Here's my go at it:
A franchise quarterback needs to have two things: an undeniably elite facet of his game, and leadership ability.
You look at Peyton Manning - his knowledge of the game and work ethic are remarkable, even enough to cover his somewhat declining physical tools. He is also able to inspire and goad his teammates on from the sideline.
Tom Brady - He is possibly the most clutch QB in recent history. When the game is on the line, he finds a way to score and simply makes his team better. He, too, can be see encouraging and challenging his team.
Aaron Rodgers - His arm strength is second to none. He leads with a calm and focused, yet effective demeanor.
Here's another question - when does a Franchise QB become an Elite QB?
In my opinion, he has to have the two criteria above in spades, in addition to IT.
What is IT? IT is what makes a 2 minute drive to win the game seem manageable, even expected. IT is what draws other players to truly put their trust in their QB, not just to lead them, but to put them on his back.
No one knows what IT is, but everyone knows who has IT. And IT is what separates the elite from the good.
Your thoughts?
It's those once in a lifetime players that rarely come around. Montana, Elway, Marino, Favre, Brady, Manning.
They are far and few between. If a fan is lucky enough to have one on their team, it's a wonderful thing. A fan of an opposing team, not so much.
I think the elite tag is thrown around way too much. I won't even go into those knuckleheads who think there is an elite QB every single draft. They are clueless.
If you get to see one or two during your lifetime, consider yourself fortunate.
I don't feel that a franchise qb needs to have a single elite facet. If he is very good, but not elite, at a number of things, and is capable of keeping up this play for 8-9 seasons (at least), then that is a franchise qb.
Matt Ryan, for example, is not elite at anything, yet is a franchise qb in my book.
An elite qb is somebody that can throw a team on his back and win a game, on top of having a track record of winning. He doesn't have to have the strongest arm, he doesn't have to have incredible athletic ability, or anything like that. That stuff is a luxury to one's game, but is not paramount.
Quote:I don't feel that a franchise qb needs to have a single elite facet. If he is very good, but not elite, at a number of things, and is capable of keeping up this play for 8-9 seasons (at least), then that is a franchise qb.
Matt Ryan, for example, is not elite at anything, yet is a franchise qb in my book.
An elite qb is somebody that can throw a team on his back and win a game, on top of having a track record of winning. He doesn't have to have the strongest arm, he doesn't have to have incredible athletic ability, or anything like that. That stuff is a luxury to one's game, but is not paramount.
Hence why I believe Bridgewater will be an elite qb, he has already demonstrated that capability within the confines of a pro style system
Elite QBs are franchise QBs with consistency. Elite QBs (Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers) are going to be in the playoffs and competing for super bowls almost every year.
Franchise QBs (Eli, Flacco, Romo, Cutler, Stafford) also have that extra gear in them to carry a team to a victory and to an occasional super bowl if they get clicking at the right time.
BONUS TIER:
QB purgatory (Dalton, Schaub, Alex Smith, Mark Sanchez) is the worst kind. Good enough to win a bunch of regular season games and often 'lead' a team to the playoffs if surrounded by good talent, but not good enough to carry a team to a super bowl. Also, not bad enough to get you a top pick to get a franchise QB prospect. Usually misleads a team into giving them a big second contract that the team regrets quickly. At least a good half decade of franchise potential wasted.
If I read QB purgatory one more time ...
Alex Smith almost made it to the super bowl if it wasn't for his teams Special team play when he was in SF lol. And he would have won the game against the colts if half his team didn't go out by the third quarter. It's hard to win when your special teams players are playing as your starters.
Quote:Elite QBs are franchise QBs with consistency. Elite QBs (Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers) are going to be in the playoffs and competing for super bowls almost every year.
Franchise QBs (Eli, Flacco, Romo, Cutler, Stafford) also have that extra gear in them to carry a team to a victory and to an occasional super bowl if they get clicking at the right time.
BONUS TIER:
QB purgatory (Dalton, Schaub, Alex Smith, Mark Sanchez) is the worst kind. Good enough to win a bunch of regular season games and often 'lead' a team to the playoffs if surrounded by good talent, but not good enough to carry a team to a super bowl. Also, not bad enough to get you a top pick to get a franchise QB prospect. Usually misleads a team into giving them a big second contract that the team regrets quickly. At least a good half decade of franchise potential wasted.
Pretty much this.
I'll add this:
An elite QB changes the opposing teams playcalling offensively and defensively in the final minutes of a close game.
For me..."Elite" means...top of the food-chain, and therefore can be relative to his group. Arbitrary number, say top 4 or top 5 QBs. They are the creme of the crop. The "Elite" will carry your team, year-in and year-out.
"Franchise" is a tier-below. They don't reach the upper echelon of the "Elite", but game-in and game-out, they'll give you a chance to win.They don't need a great supporting cast to contend, but they do need some help.
Then another step below is "Starter". They're good enough to win it for you, providing they have a great supporting cast. They are capable of big years, but don't expect them to be at that level consistently.You probably wouldn't mind an upgrade if the opportunity comes, but otherwise you'd have no problem sticking with them given the lack of other options.
Those are your three viable tiers as far as I'm concern. After that you are left with quality backups, developmental guys, and scrubs.
A Franchise QB is a Quarterback you can count on to keep you in the game. Someone who you can rarely say has you out of the game. And will be in the Top 10 in passing yards, or not far from it on a consistent basis.
An elite Quarterback is a QB that can dominate his competition. Who is considered among the top 5 active Quarterbacks at most times, and who can turn a losing franchise into a winning one and vice versa if a competent replacement is not in place.
I feel like everybody has their own definition. Look up Chip Kelly's definition... its hilarious
If you don't know who elites QBs are, just watch P. Manning, T. Brady, A. Rodgers, and D. Brees performing on Sundays. Those four QBs pretty much changed the way we look at quarterbacking this decade. They are first ballot HoFers.
Franchise QBs are Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Big Ben, Tony Romo (yes, he is a franchise QB) and Joe Flacco. They don't consistently perform at the highest level like their elite QB counterparts and aren't necessary HoFers, but they can win SBs, put up nice numbers, and bring stability to a franchise for the next 10 years. Basically, they are the type of QBs GMs/coaches know for sure that they can win and have success for the next 10 years if the GM can build a proper team around them.
Rodgers, Brady, Brees and Manning are elite. Guys like Russell Wilson, Stafford, Rivers, Eli, Cutler are franchise QB's. You can win superbowls with franchise QB's with a solid team around them. Elite guys can carry their teams and make average players look good. I'm not expecting the next Brady, but a franchise QB like the ones I listed is doable.
I agree with pretty much 100% of this.
Quote:For me..."Elite" means...top of the food-chain, and therefore can be relative to his group. Arbitrary number, say top 4 or top 5 QBs. They are the creme of the crop. The "Elite" will carry your team, year-in and year-out.
"Franchise" is a tier-below. They don't reach the upper echelon of the "Elite", but game-in and game-out, they'll give you a chance to win.They don't need a great supporting cast to contend, but they do need some help.
Then another step below is "Starter". They're good enough to win it for you, providing they have a great supporting cast. They are capable of big years, but don't expect them to be at that level consistently.You probably wouldn't mind an upgrade if the opportunity comes, but otherwise you'd have no problem sticking with them given the lack of other options.
Those are your three viable tiers as far as I'm concern. After that you are left with quality backups, developmental guys, and scrubs.
Quote:
I think the elite tag is thrown around way too much. I won't even go into those knuckleheads who think there is an elite QB every single draft. They are clueless.
There definitely was not an elite QB in the 2013 draft.
Quote:I feel like everybody has their own definition. Look up Chip Kelly's definition... its hilarious
As is the love his current starter gets by the ignorant. B)
This is just me, but when I think "franchise QB" I don't think elite, I think a QB a franchise thinks it can't afford to lose. That's why guys like Romo and Rivers and Cutler get thrown into that category.
Elite QB means a QB that is actually capable of carrying a team. If the talent around him is poor he'll carry the team to playoff contention. If the talent around him is good he'll be a Superbowl contender.
I agree about the QB purgatory, too. That's where the Jaguars have been for most of their existence with Brunell, Byron, and Garrard. Recently we've come to the extreme low end with Henne and Gabbert, which is better than being in the purgatory segment, because when you're in that segment people are usually stupid enough to think that they're actually in contention for Superbowls when all they're really in contention for is a decade of guaranteed mediocrity.
Quote:This is just me, but when I think "franchise QB" I don't think elite, I think a QB a franchise thinks it can't afford to lose. That's why guys like Romo and Rivers and Cutler get thrown into that category.
Elite QB means a QB that is actually capable of carrying a team. If the talent around him is poor he'll carry the team to playoff contention. If the talent around him is good he'll be a Superbowl contender.
I agree about the QB purgatory, too. That's where the Jaguars have been for most of their existence with Brunell, Byron, and Garrard. Recently we've come to the extreme low end with Henne and Gabbert, which is better than being in the purgatory segment, because when you're in that segment people are usually stupid enough to think that they're actually in contention for Superbowls when all they're really in contention for is a decade of guaranteed mediocrity.
Brunell, pre knee injury in 1997 was not "QB purgatory". He was a legit franchise QB, IMO.
but per usual, this franchise gets bad luck. Brunell became QB purgatory as he wasn't nearly the same dynamic player after said knee injury.
Quote:Brunell, pre knee injury in 1997 was not "QB purgatory". He was a legit franchise QB, IMO.
but per usual, this franchise gets bad luck. Brunell became QB purgatory as he wasn't nearly the same dynamic player after said knee injury.
Brunell was a franchise guy at that point, but he still wasn't elite. He just played out of his mind for two games in the '96 playoffs.
His TD numbers bear it out, too. He never threw for more than 20 TDs in his career, a truly piddling amount on a team with the level of talent that the Jaguars had. I know some people will think it was just because it was the times, but guys like Favre and Young were routinely hitting the mid 30's for TDs back then. A career high of 20 says it all about Brunell.
Elite is Hall of Fame worthy. I think a portion of being elite for some QBs is getting into the right system --- (Brees).
I'd say Big Ben is the last one on the elite category.