Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Vito is an expert.....your a moron

 

This never gets old.

Quote:Which only supports the premise that these "experts" are only marginally better at prognostication than a trained monkey.

 

That's why I lean towards Planet Theory, and that (unless someone falls desperately in love due to the hype) Clowney goes first and all this empty Bridgewater talk is a smokescreen perpetuated by all the teams wanting Clowney to drop and the prognosticators who look at the number of teams needing a QB and are overvaluing all those candidates.

Quote:NOBODY is calling Vito an expert except for you so you can then call him a moron.  His article references "experts" he talked to about the upcoming draft and the QB talent.  The only person here who seems to have a problem understanding this is you.

 

I'm laughing at you because you somehow think Kiper has a franchise on being right about player evaluation.  Kiper had Gabbert going #1 to the Carolina Panthers in the 2011 draft.  It wasn't until his final mock draft that he changed that view and predicted Gabbert would go #7 to San Francisco.  He's wrong more often than he's right, which is why he's on ESPN and not making picks for any franchise in the league. 

I did not say Kiper was the all knowing, but pointing out to you that what Vito referenced, and what Kiper thinks will happen is two different things. While Manziel may not be graded in this top 10 prospects overall, he does admit he can't see him getting passed 8th. 

Quote:Don't usually comment on it. I just thought it was ironic considering....

my apologies on the moron comment, tired of the QB fear here. Did not mean to single you out. 

Quote:I simply don't see it, but that's me.  He works well in that particular offense, which seems to scheme guys open, against that particular level of competition... but then so have other college QBs in the same system.

 

I would expect someone so much "better" than his peers to have fared better against them as far as awards and rankings, which he doesn't top any list... except those that think he's the best of the crop.

 

It's only my opinion, but I don't think he's the best of the crop and think there's a good chance he's not the first QB off the board.  I just can't see an owner giving the keys to the franchise to a QB with such a slight build and production that may not be duplicated at the NFL level.  Just looking at him, he's got the lean build of a speed back or WR.  Something just doesn't add up to me and never has.  There are rumors that his small hands and use of gloves creep out some scouts, too.  I don't see him or any other QB in this draft as some slam dunk, head and shoulders above the rest candidate.  They all have question marks/flags that are significant IMO.

Agree with this post. I think people are way overhyping Bridgewater because they think they see everything that makes Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning great in him and it's simply not that simple. I think he will be a solid QB, but I don't see that type of greatness in him and I wouldn't take him before Manziel. Manziel is a special talent, there's no one in the league like him and there hasn't been in a long time, it's just not easy to realize that because when people think of QBs that rely on their legs they think of recent players like Tebow and RGIII, not Steve Young, Joe Montana, Roger Staubach, or Fran Tarkenton. I see Bridgewater as Matt Ryan, I see Manziel as incomparable.

Quote:Agree with this post. I think people are way overhyping Bridgewater because they think they see everything that makes Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning great in him and it's simply not that simple. I think he will be a solid QB, but I don't see that type of greatness in him and I wouldn't take him before Manziel. Manziel is a special talent, there's no one in the league like him and there hasn't been in a long time, it's just not easy to realize that because when people think of QBs that rely on their legs they think of recent players like Tebow and RGIII, not Steve Young, Joe Montana, Roger Staubach, or Fran Tarkenton. I see Bridgewater as Matt Ryan, I see Manziel as incomparable.

I gotta paypal account set up and 1,000 acre ranch set up in Texas if you believe Manziel is better Bridgewater

Quote:Agree with this post. I think people are way overhyping Bridgewater because they think they see everything that makes Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning great in him and it's simply not that simple. I think he will be a solid QB, but I don't see that type of greatness in him and I wouldn't take him before Manziel. Manziel is a special talent, there's no one in the league like him and there hasn't been in a long time, it's just not easy to realize that because when people think of QBs that rely on their legs they think of recent players like Tebow and RGIII, not Steve Young, Joe Montana, Roger Staubach, or Fran Tarkenton. I see Bridgewater as Matt Ryan, I see Manziel as incomparable.

Damn right that's why people are skeptical


Think about it... If we pick Manziel at three


You are relying on,Manziel being able to transition to an NFL offense in a single preseason


He will not be afforded the opportunity to sit and get up to speed and let's be fair he is hardly in a prostyle offense... Of all the qbs being touted for the first round Manziel has the most to learn scheme wise


You are relying on Manziel bucking the trend of mobile qbs and being able to make plays with his legs despite the fact that NFL coordinators are well up on the read option right now and are successfully scheming to stop it


You are also disregarding the increased chance of injury with a QB like manziel


His high risk high reward style which is why he makes those big plays in college will be twice as risky,in the NFL for the same reward and I think he will be asked to curb,it in the NFL... Will he still be the same guy?


If he adapts I agree could become elite but evidence is against him


He is truly boom or bust and if that's the case on a pick we can't afford to miss on I would rather go Clowney or Barr

Quote:Damn right that's why people are skeptical


Think about it... If we pick Manziel at three


You are relying on,Manziel being able to transition to an NFL offense in a single preseason

 

All of the QB's drafted high are expected to do this in today's NFL.

Quote:All of the QB's drafted high are expected to do this in today's NFL.

true but read on... i get to it

manziel has the most adapting to do of them all

bridgewater and bortles both already play in a prostyle offense

carr is by his lack of athletic ability already soley a pocket passer

 

manziel to my mind has the most adapting to do to get nfl ready. I'm not saying he can't do it, but it's going to be alot of work

Quote:Agree with this post. I think people are way overhyping Bridgewater because they think they see everything that makes Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning great in him and it's simply not that simple. I think he will be a solid QB, but I don't see that type of greatness in him and I wouldn't take him before Manziel. Manziel is a special talent, there's no one in the league like him and there hasn't been in a long time, it's just not easy to realize that because when people think of QBs that rely on their legs they think of recent players like Tebow and RGIII, not Steve Young, Joe Montana, Roger Staubach, or Fran Tarkenton. I see Bridgewater as Matt Ryan, I see Manziel as incomparable.

 

 

Maybe its the way he controls the entire offense himself. You dont see him looking to the sidelines for a call he is left free to make choices and checks on his own. You know who else did that in college? Peyton Manning.

 

Maybe this offense that schemes people open (as pirkster said though i thought that was the point of playing offense but who knows) is the product of the coaches being able to put loads and loads on his shoulders and expecting him to make progressions,reads and anticipate throws like NFL Qbs do. The scheme is good becuase of Bridgewater not Bridgewater is good because of the scheme. Put Manziel , Bortles or Carr in the same situation and they likely dont have the mental ability and instincts to handle it.

 

It is that simple he studies defenses like its a religion and scouts harp on and on about his work ethic and drive to get better? Sound familiar beause it certainly does to me (Peyton Manning). Its as if you cant see the difference when he drops back vs other Qbs. He is head and shoulders better than Manziel,Carr,Bortles and any other QB in this draft class.

Quote:Hey just curious, has anyone been over to the Texan boards?? I'd imagine vagrantwade has found a new team to root for, given they are likely to take Teddy. 

 

I was over there a few weeks ago and at that time the were not sold on Bridgewater like the Jags board.  Not sure if vagrantwade was on as I was only looking for their perspective on Bridgewater.

Quote:I simply don't see it, but that's me. He works well in that particular offense, which seems to scheme guys open, against that particular level of competition... but then so have other college QBs in the same system.


I would expect someone so much "better" than his peers to have fared better against them as far as awards and rankings, which he doesn't top any list... except those that think he's the best of the crop.


It's only my opinion, but I don't think he's the best of the crop and think there's a good chance he's not the first QB off the board. I just can't see an owner giving the keys to the franchise to a QB with such a slight build and production that may not be duplicated at the NFL level. Just looking at him, he's got the lean build of a speed back or WR. Something just doesn't add up to me and never has. There are rumors that his small hands and use of gloves creep out some scouts, too. I don't see him or any other QB in this draft as some slam dunk, head and shoulders above the rest candidate. They all have question marks/flags that are significant IMO.

That's a fair opinion, and every prospect in this draft has some concerns. But remember this when you judge Bridgewater:


1. Yes, he has some concern with his thin body frame, but he's not your stereotypical read option QB. He can move around inside the pocket, so he'll be fine. Unless he is overwhelmingly underweight -- like at 180-ish lb. -- I don't see why this is even a problem.


2. Based on his initial expectations: a Heisman favorite, go undefeated and putting up huge numbers this year. Yes, he didn't really "deliver" in that sense, especially after Louisville lost to UCF. Sometimes it doesn't go as plan throughout the course of the season, but the important thing is that he didn't let Louisville slip their season away like Geno Smith did for his WV team. (Another reason why I'm so confused with the Geno comparison). They went 12-1, and he put on one of his best performance against a team once ranked in the top 10.


3. While you can criticize him for not putting up huge numbers in a sub-par conference, I dont know why you never consider that the talents around him are mediocre at best, if that. Louisville second best player, DeVante Parker, has decided to return to school even though his QB and coach are leaving; Parker, most likely, received a poor grade by the advisory committee and was encouraged to stay. In fact, I don't think there is even another player on that Louisville roster who has a mid-round grade.


4. The type of offense that he ran at Louisville is one of the reason why scouts graded him higher than the other QBs in this class. Yes, there is no "Wow" factor from him, but this is because he's your classic drop back passer -- this is required at the NFL level.


5. Going into this college season, he was ranked as the best QB in this class and the second ranked player overall after Clowney. Now that the college season just ended, he is still ranked as the top QB and is in the top 5-7 players overall ranked player in this coming draft. Out of all the top ranked players, he has the best chance of being drafted #1; compare to what was expected of him, he didnt disappoint anyone.