If Khan makes the mistake of keeping Caldwell at GM, this is really what I think we have to look forward to:
We will be in the same situation the Browns were in 3 years ago when they had to hire Mike Pettine. No hot coach is going to want to come here tied to a lameduck GM and bust QB so we will have to promote a positions coach to head coach and we will be a laughing stock of the league. Bortles will be kept as the starter obviously and Caldwell, in his infinite wisdom, will tell himself he needs to give Bortles every chance to succeed and will draft Cook or Fournette with our top 5 pick. He will probably choose Fournette because Caldwell goes by conventional scouting wisdom every year and Fournette will probably be a chronically hurt bust. Bortles plays terrible again and the new coach is terrible and we go 2-14 again next year.
This is what we have to look forward to if Caldwell is kept on and I would bet a mortgage on this exact scenario playing out. We can only pray we get the number one overall pick in 2018 so we can draft Sam Darnold.
And more threads like this, sigh
Quote:If Khan makes the mistake of keeping Caldwell at GM, this is really what I think we have to look forward to:
We will be in the same situation the Browns were in 3 years ago when they had to hire Mike Pettine. No hot coach is going to want to come here tied to a lameduck GM and bust QB so we will have to promote a positions coach to head coach and we will be a laughing stock of the league.
It is sad that you are so right. Coaches like Cowher, John Gruden, even if they want to coach again, won't work for Caldwell. This has happened to bad teams in the past as we remember the Bucs and the Falcons. And it will continue with the Browns. Hopefully Khan will stop this wheel in motion.
Quote:If Khan makes the mistake of keeping Caldwell at GM, this is really what I think we have to look forward to:
We will be in the same situation the Browns were in 3 years ago when they had to hire Mike Pettine. No hot coach is going to want to come here tied to a lameduck GM and bust QB so we will have to promote a positions coach to head coach and we will be a laughing stock of the league. Bortles will be kept as the starter obviously and Caldwell, in his infinite wisdom, will tell himself he needs to give Bortles every chance to succeed and will draft Cook or Fournette with our top 5 pick. He will probably choose Fournette because Caldwell goes by conventional scouting wisdom every year and Fournette will probably be a chronically hurt bust. Bortles plays terrible again and the new coach is terrible and we go 2-14 again next year.
This is what we have to look forward to if Caldwell is kept on and I would bet a mortgage on this exact scenario playing out. We can only pray we get the number one overall pick in 2018 so we can draft Sam Darnold.
I doubt Khan 'makes the mistake' of keeping Caldwell because he'll likely do a lot of consultation of people regarding him. If he brings on Couglin to coach, or in some kind of executive position then he'll take what Coughlin thinks about Caldwell into strong consideration. It's entirely possible someone comes in that likes what Caldwell has done or a coach likes what he's done, but I don't doubt if someone like Jim Harbaugh could be hired under the condition that Caldwell gets canned that Caldwell is as good as gone.
I'm sure Khan understands well enough that you can't let one mistake force you into another.
All of that being said I doubt that Caldwell gets his choice of coaches this go-round since he's shown he has absolutely no clue how to evaluate one.
Quote:If Khan makes the mistake of keeping Caldwell at GM, this is really what I think we have to look forward to:
We will be in the same situation the Browns were in 3 years ago when they had to hire Mike Pettine. No hot coach is going to want to come here tied to a lameduck GM and bust QB so we will have to promote a positions coach to head coach and we will be a laughing stock of the league. Bortles will be kept as the starter obviously and Caldwell, in his infinite wisdom, will tell himself he needs to give Bortles every chance to succeed and will draft Cook or Fournette with our top 5 pick. He will probably choose Fournette because Caldwell goes by conventional scouting wisdom every year and Fournette will probably be a chronically hurt bust. Bortles plays terrible again and the new coach is terrible and we go 2-14 again next year.
This is what we have to look forward to if Caldwell is kept on and I would bet a mortgage on this exact scenario playing out. We can only pray we get the number one overall pick in 2018 so we can draft Sam Darnold.
You've got a deal. My mortgage is $2,497.
You say he will promote a positions coach to be HC and we will draft Fournette. I say this exact scenario will not play out.
We can place the betting funds in an escrow account to ensure the loser of the bet pays their obligated debt.
Gus ain't going anywhere. GOAT coach. Just dealing with the trash Dave has given him.
Man the losing is frying our brains.
As much as I don't want it to happen, another year with Caldwell, Gussy and Bortles would almost make sense. Then in 2018, the slate will be totally clean, with a new GM and HC and a high draft pick at QB all in the same year. It does get a bit complicated when there's overlap between old regime figureheads and new faces.
Good Dave deserves to be there I don't I don't get what you're complaining about you're not going to hit on every draft if you're not going to hit on every free agents yeah you know we don't really have a quarterback was injured but so what I mean when you hit on the majority of it what it what's the matter
Quote:Good Dave deserves to be there I don't I don't get what you're complaining about you're not going to hit on every draft if you're not going to hit on every free agents yeah you know we don't really have a quarterback was injured but so what I mean when you hit on the majority of it what it what's the matter
![[Image: j7ap7a.gif]](http://i66.tinypic.com/j7ap7a.gif)
Caldwell has done a decent job but not a near enough good job given the positions he's been placed in during each draft.
His entire 2013 draft class is lack luster:
Joeckel - Gone
Cyprien - Just now maybe turning the corner
Gratz - Can't remember if he was cut but he's a back-up
Sanders - Cut
Robinson - Failed project player
Evans - Can't remember if he was cut but he's a back-up
Harris - Cut I think
MCCray - Cut I think
Most of his 2014 class has been decent:
Bortles - Not living up to the hype - Hope to god his flaws can be fixed in 2017 with a competent staff
Lee - Showing this year when he's healthy he's a solid contributor
Robinson - Great 2015 campaign - Let down in 2016 - Can attribute that to his poor QB
Linder - Solid guard / center
Colvin - Solid corner
T. Smith - Exceptional outside linebacker for a 5th rd pick
C.Smith - Think he was cut earlier this year
Bowanko - Can't stay healthy but a back-up nonetheless
Johnson - He's gone
His entire 2015 has also been lack luster but with maybe some potential:
Fowler - Didn't play last year - So far this year though he's been a bit of a flash in the pan but more of a setback at times
Yeldon - He just doesn't have it at this level
Cann - Decent guard
Sample - Can't stay healthy
Greene - Can't stay healthy and has been a huge liability this year on punt returns
Bennett - Is he still on the team?
Sterling - Project player - Finally saw some glimpses of him last week
Koyack - Could be a solid player with more time to develop
2016 Draft Class:
Ramsey - He finally got it right in the first round
Jack - Can't argue with this pick - everyone loved it
Nqakoue - Right now he looks like he was a steal in RD3
Day - Haven't seen him play yet
Holmes - Cut or on IR I think?
Allen - Hasn't played yet
Woodard - Cut or on IR for sure
His free agency signings haven't been all that great either.
2013 Free Agency Signings:
Geno Hayes - Gone
Roy Miller - Can't stay healthy
Justin Forsett - Gone - AND saw success in Baltimore
Alan Ball - Gone
Sen'Derrick Marks - One solid season - Can't stay healthy
2014 Free Agency Signings:
Tandon Doss - Gone
Dekoda Watson - Gone
Chris Clemons - Decent for a year or two - turned into a diva this off-season
Ziggy Hood - Gone
Red Bryant - Was decent but he's gone
Zane Beadles - Gone
Toby Gerhart - Gone
2015 Free Agency Signings:
Julius Thomas - Overpaid and oft injured
Jared Odrick - Solid player
Jermey Parnell - Liability on our offensive line
Davon House - Already benched and regulated to back-up duties
Dan Skuta - Being phased out by Myles Jack
Serigo Brown - Is he gone already?
Bryan Walters - Decent value signing
2016 Free Agency Signings:
Josh Johnson - Decent pick-up
Kelvin Beachum - He's certainly been better than Joeckel
Mackenzy Bernadeau - Cut
Prince Amukamara - Solid player
Brad Nortman - He's a punter... so....
Malik Jackson - I don't think he's been a bad player at all. Is he worth $90M? Meh. We'll see down the road.
Chris Ivory - Injury bug earlier and carries the ball like a loaf of bread so far this year. Concerning down the road.
Tashaun Gipson - Not a terrible signing at all - He's been beat maybe once or twice but the secondary has played better with him in the line-up.
So it's not like he's built together a world beater of a roster as well. He's just as much at fault for Bradley's struggles on this team. Both of them are very replaceable. And again, I cited this in a thread about Bortles yesterday. Jacksonville's fan base had grown so accustomed to really mediocre QB play between Garrard (Carried by a great rushing offense and above average defense with average receivers in fairness), Leftwich (terrible mechanics and injury prone, he was basically Mr. Glass here) and Gabbert (No intestinal fortitude whatsoever in the pocket) that we think Bortles is the 2nd coming of Jesus at QB despite his GLARING fundamental flaws and mechanics and decision making out on the field. The same can be applied to our general manager. We were accustomed to James Harris squandering draft choices and Gene Smith drafting Division III prospects that our city and fanbase didn't know how to act when David Caldwell started drafting guys we all watched here and there on Saturday's or work nights on nationally televised games. That still doesn't retract the fact that this team is 14 - 45 under Bradley's coaching and Caldwell's overall scouting and personnel choices and decision making.
I agree Caldwell staying would most notably impact our head coaching search. I also just don't think Dave has been good enough, but more than that I'm scared that none of the top HC candidates will come here with a lame duck GM saddled with a subpar QB.
Pessimistic Scenario if Caldwell is fired:
-We hire a GM who chooses a bust QB in the first round
-We trade Blake Bortles for a 4th rounder and Brock Osweiller.
-We use our 4th rounder on a punter
-Bortles has success under Bill O'Brien (#becausejaguars)
Quote:And more threads like this, sigh
Caldwell needs to stay. The talent he's brought in is MORE than good enough to win.
Gus Bradley needs to be canned ASAP. That's the ONLY problem with this team
Such craziness from the fan base.
Look, I am not happy with how things have went this season but to deny there is not talent on this team is asinine. The defense is looking stout right now, top 10! The offense which "WE ALL THOUGHT" coming into this season would be a strong point of this team has regressed significantly. Twelve months ago no one questioned Bortles or Caldwell.
As for Bradly, he was the right guy for the 1st three years of the rebuild. His personality and temperament were exactly what the roster needed. For guiding this team through those first 3 years he was given the opportunity to prove himself in year four. He is not the right man moving forward and that will be addressed publicly on Jan 3rd. Caldwell chose the right man for the job initially like it or not.
As to coaches shying away from this roster because of Caldwell, get real. This team is loaded for an absolute dominating turn-a-round with the right coach.
Quote:Caldwell has done a decent job but not a near enough good job given the positions he's been placed in during each draft.
His entire 2013 draft class is lack luster:
Joeckel - Gone
Cyprien - Just now maybe turning the corner
Gratz - Can't remember if he was cut but he's a back-up
Sanders - Cut
Robinson - Failed project player
Evans - Can't remember if he was cut but he's a back-up
Harris - Cut I think
MCCray - Cut I think
Most of his 2014 class has been decent:
Bortles - Not living up to the hype - Hope to god his flaws can be fixed in 2017 with a competent staff
Lee - Showing this year when he's healthy he's a solid contributor
Robinson - Great 2015 campaign - Let down in 2016 - Can attribute that to his poor QB
Linder - Solid guard / center
Colvin - Solid corner
T. Smith - Exceptional outside linebacker for a 5th rd pick
C.Smith - Think he was cut earlier this year
Bowanko - Can't stay healthy but a back-up nonetheless
Johnson - He's gone
His entire 2015 has also been lack luster but with maybe some potential:
Fowler - Didn't play last year - So far this year though he's been a bit of a flash in the pan but more of a setback at times
Yeldon - He just doesn't have it at this level
Cann - Decent guard
Sample - Can't stay healthy
Greene - Can't stay healthy and has been a huge liability this year on punt returns
Bennett - Is he still on the team?
Sterling - Project player - Finally saw some glimpses of him last week
Koyack - Could be a solid player with more time to develop
2016 Draft Class:
Ramsey - He finally got it right in the first round
Jack - Can't argue with this pick - everyone loved it
Nqakoue - Right now he looks like he was a steal in RD3
Day - Haven't seen him play yet
Holmes - Cut or on IR I think?
Allen - Hasn't played yet
Woodard - Cut or on IR for sure
His free agency signings haven't been all that great either.
2013 Free Agency Signings:
Geno Hayes - Gone
Roy Miller - Can't stay healthy
Justin Forsett - Gone - AND saw success in Baltimore
Alan Ball - Gone
Sen'Derrick Marks - One solid season - Can't stay healthy
2014 Free Agency Signings:
Tandon Doss - Gone
Dekoda Watson - Gone
Chris Clemons - Decent for a year or two - turned into a diva this off-season
Ziggy Hood - Gone
Red Bryant - Was decent but he's gone
Zane Beadles - Gone
Toby Gerhart - Gone
2015 Free Agency Signings:
Julius Thomas - Overpaid and oft injured
Jared Odrick - Solid player
Jermey Parnell - Liability on our offensive line
Davon House - Already benched and regulated to back-up duties
Dan Skuta - Being phased out by Myles Jack
Serigo Brown - Is he gone already?
Bryan Walters - Decent value signing
2016 Free Agency Signings:
Josh Johnson - Decent pick-up
Kelvin Beachum - He's certainly been better than Joeckel
Mackenzy Bernadeau - Cut
Prince Amukamara - Solid player
Brad Nortman - He's a punter... so....
Malik Jackson - I don't think he's been a bad player at all. Is he worth $90M? Meh. We'll see down the road.
Chris Ivory - Injury bug earlier and carries the ball like a loaf of bread so far this year. Concerning down the road.
Tashaun Gipson - Not a terrible signing at all - He's been beat maybe once or twice but the secondary has played better with him in the line-up.
So it's not like he's built together a world beater of a roster as well. He's just as much at fault for Bradley's struggles on this team. Both of them are very replaceable. And again, I cited this in a thread about Bortles yesterday. Jacksonville's fan base had grown so accustomed to really mediocre QB play between Garrard (Carried by a great rushing offense and above average defense with average receivers in fairness), Leftwich (terrible mechanics and injury prone, he was basically Mr. Glass here) and Gabbert (No intestinal fortitude whatsoever in the pocket) that we think Bortles is the 2nd coming of Jesus at QB despite his GLARING fundamental flaws and mechanics and decision making out on the field. The same can be applied to our general manager. We were accustomed to James Harris squandering draft choices and Gene Smith drafting Division III prospects that our city and fanbase didn't know how to act when David Caldwell started drafting guys we all watched here and there on Saturday's or work nights on nationally televised games. That still doesn't retract the fact that this team is 14 - 45 under Bradley's coaching and Caldwell's overall scouting and personnel choices and decision making.
Putting it into perspective, yeah Caldwell likely has to go. Very subar record gathering talent.
Quote:Such craziness from the fan base.
Look, I am not happy with how things have went this season but to deny there is not talent on this team is asinine. The defense is looking stout right now, top 10! The offense which "WE ALL THOUGHT" coming into this season would be a strong point of this team has regressed significantly. Twelve months ago no one questioned Bortles or Caldwell.
As for Bradly, he was the right guy for the 1st three years of the rebuild. His personality and temperament were exactly what the roster needed. For guiding this team through those first 3 years he was given the opportunity to prove himself in year four. He is not the right man moving forward and that will be addressed publicly on Jan 3rd. Caldwell chose the right man for the job initially like it or not.
As to coaches shying away from this roster because of Caldwell, get real. This team is loaded for an absolute dominating turn-a-round with the right coach.
Wrong, Bradley was never the right guy unless the plan was amassing top five picks in the draft. This team needed a coach that could actually coach talent up, Gus doesn't do that.
There is nothing right about Gus as a head coach, nothing.