11-02-2013, 02:35 PM
Quote:I know. Have we really sunk this far?
The comparison is poor. I can think of a lot of GMs who were worse than Shack. That's not true with Gene.
Quote:I know. Have we really sunk this far?
Quote:I blame VicThats exactly what it was, I still believe Vic left cause he knew we weren't gonna be good and was tired of making excuses.
Quote:Thats exactly what it was, I still believe Vic left cause he knew we weren't gonna be good and was tired of making excuses.
Quote:Ha. I don't think it was that at all. But he sure was high on Gene Smith.I would agree that other factors (like the packers being storied and good) were at play. But I still think, after reading his column for every day for 7 years, that Vic looked in his 'Crystal Ball' and saw that we were not going anywhere fast. I loved reading Vic, but I really feel like he got tired at the end. The whole 'bibbers' thing and all that, he was getting bitter. Heck we gave him heart troubles (kidding).
Quote:I would agree that other factors (like the packers being storied and good) were at play. But I still think, after reading his column for every day for 7 years, that Vic looked in his 'Crystal Ball' and saw that we were not going anywhere fast. I loved reading Vic, but I really feel like he got tired at the end. The whole 'bibbers' thing and all that, he was getting bitter. Heck we gave him heart troubles (kidding).
Quote:Wasn't he high on Gabbert
Quote:This is very uniformed. Im sorry, you can do this for any GM. First off, who was better this year at 2 than Joekel? Where was the franchise QB in this draft? Was there really anyone better value wise than him? Plus our line was awful. Sure, we could of drafted Jordan or Ansah, but would they really of made this team that better off? Same for Monroe with Gene, that was the best player on the board with a need, thats an unfair comparison.
You only scratched the surface.
In 2013, Dave Caldwell
<div>1) got rid of a serviceable LT who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.
2) also replaced the starting RT.
3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left, kept the other two starters.
4) let go of two starting CBs, one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.
5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick.
6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.
7) the other sometimes starting DE was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.
8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick.
In 2009 , Gene Smith
1) got rid of a serviceable LT (Khalif Barnes) who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.
2) also replaced the starting RT (Pashos).
3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left (Mike Peterson), kept the other two starters.
4) let go of two starting CBs (Drayton Florence, Brian Williams), one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.
5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick (albeit by the Lions in 2007).
6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.
7) the other sometimes starting DE (Q. Groves) was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.
8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick (Mike Thomas).
There are some differences of course. Gene replaced both WRs while Dave replaced a third CB and a DT. Gene made less use of street free agency. But the parallel between the actions of the two GMs in their first year is stunning.
</div>
Quote:You also forgot to mention that both Gene, and Caldwell both believe in building through the draft.
Quote:I would agree that other factors (like the packers being storied and good) were at play. But I still think, after reading his column for every day for 7 years, that Vic looked in his 'Crystal Ball' and saw that we were not going anywhere fast. I loved reading Vic, but I really feel like he got tired at the end. The whole 'bibbers' thing and all that, he was getting bitter. Heck we gave him heart troubles (kidding).
Quote:This is very uniformed. Im sorry, you can do this for any GM. First off, who was better this year at 2 than Joekel? Where was the franchise QB in this draft? Was there really anyone better value wise than him? Plus our line was awful. Sure, we could of drafted Jordan or Ansah, but would they really of made this team that better off? Same for Monroe with Gene, that was the best player on the board with a need, thats an unfair comparison.
Parted ways with aging LB? really? You comparing what Gene did with Peterson to Caldwell with Smith? They both wanted more money than what they were worth and are old.
Florence was over paid, Cox wanted to get paid more than he was worth. Plus Jags offered Cox a deal, he turned it down.
Landry was overrated, Deon Grant i agree we should of kept.
Did you want us to fix every hole in one year, who would we replace the O line and D line problems with? Obviously i think they have an idea of how bad we are.
Did you want Caldwell to cut the punter and kicker to fit your agenda? Terrible comparison.
Quote:Not saying Geno Smith will be great or elite but Caldwell missed on him. At least bring him in to fight with Gabbert for the spot then you could've cut Henne with his high salary since that's what they seem to like to do. I rather have him than Cyprien. When you don't have a quarterback on your team you have to take flyers in the draft.
Quote:Deon Grant i agree we should of kept.
Quote:Gene never rebuilt. He repaired, and did a terrible job of it. And it was a mistake to try to do a repair job, rather than tear the whole thing down.
In the 2009 draft, Gene Smith traded away a 2010 2nd rounder for a 2009 3rd rounder. He wanted Derek Cox. People here argued that it was worth it, because we got him a year earlier. But we were not at a point where having a player a year earlier would have put us in playoff contention. He essentially said "There's not going to be anybody worth picking in round 2 in 2010".
Come 2010 -- rather than trade down and risk on missing out on Tyson Alualu, he made the pick. The value was simply not there for Alualu.
Gene always felt we were closer than we were. He thought we were a few pieces away from being a contender. That's why he took Brian Anger in the 3rd round. He felt if we just had a punter, we'd be competitive. He never realized just how much we lacked talent.
That's something Dave Caldwell is not guilty of. Caldwell came in, and did not overrate the players we have.
Quote:Shack drafted Leftwhich and Reggie Williams back to back. Smith drafts Gabbert and Justin Blackmon back to back.
Both QB's are complete busts and both WR's are druggies who can't stay the #$%^ out of trouble. Shack drafts Barnes and Gene takes Monroe, both end up as overated underachieving tackles.
I have never seen a sports franchise get absolutely bent over this bad by poor regimes and bad luck.
Quote:Gene's greatest downfall were his trade-ups for players that were not pro bowlers or even close to that.
If you're trading up, you better know that the guy you're targeting will fit your system perfectly, has the ability and the character to be productive for a long time.